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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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More caster and camber


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43 replies to this topic

#1 presslab

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:05 AM

I've been trying for a while to get a more performance oriented suspension alignment on my GL-10 wagon. The two issues being caster and static camber.

Here's how I handled the caster problem, by pushing the strut rod forward. It moves the tire forward a 1/2" too, so make sure there is clearance for this. The steering feel is better, and it also gets more negative camber when going around turns.

Posted Image

Two of these: http://www.mcmaster....artnum=8491A734
And a box of these: http://www.mcmaster....rtnum=98026A036

The camber I attacked in two ways. I used the Com-C strut tops from Whiteline that moved the strut mounting point inward; these are for the early WRX. I also drilled new holes in the subframe to push out the lower control arms. I was worried about the bolts slipping, but they've been fine for a year now.

Posted Image

Posted Image
http://www.rallyspor...02-2007-WRX-STI

Handling is pretty fantastic now. With the Advan AD08 tires, the struts modified for stiffness, and the alignment mods, it's just about where I want it.

#2 shortysayhi

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:12 AM

Do you have pics of the outside? And your also running air suspension (thats what it looks like..)?

#3 presslab

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:20 AM

Yes, I have the air suspension. I really like it! I replaced the fluid in the struts and repressurized them, to increase the damping.

Here's a recent shot of the car.
Posted Image

#4 MilesFox

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:41 AM

Very nice example! Clever trick you got there. Yay for air suspension:burnout:

#5 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 12:05 PM

Very interesting Ideas... Thank you for Share. Posted Image

Could I Ask you more info about the Rims on your Subie?

Kind Regards.

#6 Gloyale

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:42 PM

The Good...
Posted Image
http://www.rallyspor...02-2007-WRX-STI

The Bad...
Posted Image


The Ugly
Posted Image





JK.....I shimmmed my radius rods with a few washers as well.....partially just to tighten the bushing. I really like those whiteline tops:headbang:
I am gonna pass on that control arm mount mod:-\

#7 presslab

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:22 PM

JK.....I shimmmed my radius rods with a few washers as well.....partially just to tighten the bushing. I really like those whiteline tops:headbang:
I am gonna pass on that control arm mount mod:-\


Did you put a spacer over the threads like I did on mine? With the 4 washers, and the spacer, the preload on the bushings is the same as before. It's just pushed futher out.

The bushing in the control arm has little metal spikes on the end to bite into the steel of the subframe. I was pretty confident they would stay put, as they didn't move in the original location either. I don't think the extra hole weakens the subframe appreciably.

#8 presslab

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:25 PM

Could I Ask you more info about the Rims on your Subie?



I redrilled the hubs for 6 lug on my milling machine, put those Isuzu Rodeo wheels on, and painted them black.

The wheel specs are 1999 Isuzu Rodeo alloy wheels, 6.5x15", with 5.25" backspacing.

#9 987687

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:05 PM

Brilliant! I'm going to definitely give this a try. Though, for the engine crossmember I'll weld plate over the hole and just drill a new one. I wouldn't feel comfortable with it like that, this car sees a lot of rallx and high speed logging road abuse. I can't have that stuff breaking out in the woods or giving me a DNF.

#10 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:23 PM

...The wheel specs are 1999 Isuzu Rodeo alloy wheels, 6.5x15", with 5.25" backspacing.


Thank you for your Kind Answer. I Like the Looks of your Subie.

Kind Regards.


#11 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:48 PM

Good work. Where in norcal are you?

#12 Caboobaroo

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:44 PM

Why wouldn't you do the caster correct by getting adjustable radius rods? I just bought a pair, granted they were $130 shipped but I wasn't complaining.

Oh and you do know if you 5-lug it, you can get camber adjustment with the EJ struts and knuckles.... That crossmember is a bit scary...

#13 987687

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:53 PM

Why wouldn't you do the caster correct by getting adjustable radius rods? I just bought a pair, granted they were $130 shipped but I wasn't complaining.

Oh and you do know if you 5-lug it, you can get camber adjustment with the EJ struts and knuckles.... That crossmember is a bit scary...


The x-member would be fine with some welding. Especially having a hole that close to the edge.

Link to said adjustable rods?

#14 presslab

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:17 PM

I guess I should have expected some critique posting my images here. We all have opinions, but I doubt that those that are throwing stones have ever heard of someone having a problem because of this. Hmm? :lol: It's just all talk, but I'm here doing. Why you gotta be hatin'! :dead:

Why wouldn't you do the caster correct by getting adjustable radius rods?


I didn't use adjustable radius rods because I don't need them. This is the maximum caster that I can have without tire rub. Why would I pay extra? Don't berate me because I don't like to waste my money like you do. My method is no less correct than your aftermarket rods of unknown quality.

Oh and you do know if you 5-lug it, you can get camber adjustment with the EJ struts and knuckles.... That crossmember is a bit scary...


I don't want to 5-lug it either. As stated I have the air suspension and I like it. There is no inexpensive 5-lug air suspension option in the USA. Anyway it seems like all the street oriented guys are running 5-lug with WRX suspension and WRX wheels. Boooorrrriiinng.

Where in norcal are you?


I'm about 50 mi north of San Francisco.

Thanks to the rest of you for your comments! I just wanted to share my ideas with others. If you don't like them, please have polite constructive criticism, or just move on.

#15 Numbchux

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:23 PM

I don't want to 5-lug it either. As stated I have the air suspension and I like it. There is no inexpensive 5-lug air suspension option in the USA. Anyway it seems like all the street oriented guys are running 5-lug with WRX suspension and WRX wheels. Boooorrrriiinng.


1st Gen Legacies were available with air suspension if you're attached to it. Not common, but probably not any more rare than EA82 air struts....Not only would you gain camber adjustment, but better ackerman angle, and virtually infinite options for brakes. Simply swapping to EJ knuckles/struts in my XT6s has drastically changed the handling for the better.


Something I have considered, is to redrill the crossmember like that, but to raise that inner pivot, which would help the roll center when lowered. But, once 5-lugged, there are roll-center correction kits available.






If you don't like them, please have polite constructive criticism, or just move on.


No need to get defensive. I don't see any negative posts. Just some people asking why you chose what you did, and not something else.

I like what you've done, and have done some of that too (the caster spacers). But there are a couple things I would do and have done differently. It's great that you're happy with it, so you wouldn't need to change it, but there's definitely still room for improvement.

#16 presslab

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:44 PM

1st Gen Legacies were available with air suspension if you're attached to it.


I have seen a few GL-10s in the wreckers with air suspension, but never a Legacy with it. Maybe they didn't sell that model around here. I guess I could buy new struts, and use regular Legacy parts for the other stuff. That's $$$ though.

Something I have considered, is to redrill the crossmember like that, but to raise that inner pivot, which would help the roll center when lowered. But, once 5-lugged, there are roll-center correction kits available.


That is an interesting idea. My vehicle is stock height (and I like it) so I tried to drill the new hole to keep the same angle of the control arm.

No need to get defensive. I don't see any negative posts.


No negative posts? Maybe you're a glass mostly full kind of guy.

You didn't see:

The Good...
The Bad...
The Ugly

I am gonna pass on that control arm mount mod:-\


Or maybe

Why wouldn't you do the caster correct

That crossmember is a bit scary...


It's great that you're happy with it, so you wouldn't need to change it, but there's definitely still room for improvement.


Yes of course. I'd be happy to entertain ideas of improvement.

Edited by presslab, 23 April 2012 - 08:48 PM.


#17 MilesFox

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:03 PM


I don't want to 5-lug it either. As stated I have the air suspension and I like it. There is no inexpensive 5-lug air suspension option in the USA. Anyway it seems like all the street oriented guys are running 5-lug with WRX suspension and WRX wheels. Boooorrrriiinng.



you can do it if you find xt6 air struts. the system works the same, but you would have 5 lugs. you would only need the front strut and knuckle, and keep your rear struts as they fit the same.

You should be able to fit dual pot calipers on the rotors, buy you will lose the parking brake.

..and run xt6 wheels:)

#18 987687

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:12 PM

I can understand wanting to keep the ea82 knuckles, etc. They're a lot more simple, and changing out the wheel bearing is a lot more simple too. It's a simple system that works well.

#19 wentz912

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:59 PM

The legacy I pulled my drivers side knuckle and hub off of had front air suspension. Didn't take the time to check out the rear.

#20 presslab

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:06 AM

I found the adjustable radius rod here, about $100 for the set. My setup was about $20, but this is for those of you that need some adjustment.

http://www.rockauto....o.php?pk=674693
Posted Image

#21 shortysayhi

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:13 AM

I Really like this idea but not for me. Just a heads up, when your air suspension goes out it is exspensive (400) a shock, and they are still available... Right now.

Thanks for showin us your mod tho!:banana:

#22 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

Yes, thank you for Sharing.

...Link to said adjustable rods?


I was about to ask about the Use of these Camber Plates for Camber Correction...


Posted Image



...if it is Possible to use 'em on Air Suspension?

Kind Regards.


#23 presslab

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:35 AM

Yes, thank you for Sharing.

I was about to ask about the Use of these Camber Plates for Camber Correction...

...if it is Possible to use 'em on Air Suspension?

Kind Regards.


Thank you for your kind regard. ;)

I think those will work. Before my Com-C mounts I had pillow ball mounts like the ones you show, from Tein. They were fine, a bit noisy. Without the rubber on the Com-C you can hear the struts click-clacking going down the road. Not loud but a little annoying.

I needed to make a special shoulder nut to allow the air hose to come out the top. The nut I used was one of those "mag" wheel lug nuts, and then I cut the top off. This worked great. Also a tiny bit of filing was needed on the three mounting holes, but this was quite easy.

#24 presslab

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:48 AM

I noticed the lower control arm bushings were looking sad, and I wanted to replace them. From the factory, it seems only the whole arm is available with the bushing pre-installed. No thanks. I saw that SuperPro has these bushings, but Tein quoted me a 2 month lead time! No thanks.

I did some digging and I found Energy Suspension 8.2105 could work, looking at the dimensions. And at $21 from Amazon (enough for three cars) they were a deal! I got them in two days. With a little trimming from the cut-off wheel they fit nice into the control arm. I reused the inner sleeve from the old bushing after removing the rubber. The sleeve is a bit small for the bushing by about 0.3mm, but it's a pretty good fit really. If you have a lathe it would take a minute to make slightly larger sleeves; mine is in storage unfortunately.

I had urethane on my previous cars and they like to squeak after a while. This time I wanted an easy way to grease them, so I installed a zerk. I squirted some marine grease in there and they're real smooth.

Here are the photos:
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by presslab, 13 May 2012 - 10:51 AM.


#25 wentz912

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 02:22 PM

Since you got enough of the control arm bushings for three cars, would you be willing to sell one of the extra sets?




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