Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

HELP ME! PLEASE, I need advice/insight, GOT PROBS


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 88coupe

88coupe

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 62 posts
  • astoria

Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:49 AM

OK, So the other day I heard a odd kind of grumbling noise when I started my car (95 Subaru Leagacy Wagon "L") gave it a little gas & it went away. But the next I started it & the noise was there again, but it didnt go away this time. I started thinking what all it could be: Altenator-AC-Idler pulley siezing, Loose bolt get tossed around behind the timing belt shields(I KNOW IT WOULD BE CATASTROPHIC), Loose something somewhere etc? So upon inspection nothing screamed problem, however once I made it to work I was putting in new headlight bulbs and noticed my RAD. hose was swollen like you wouldnt/couldnt believe & rock hard. So I really started thinking how it had been running lately: The temp gauge had been registering different at times(but I had thought that was due to one of the RAD. fans not working, the connector plug was kinda fried on one wire, so I pulled it out of the plug & connected it externally with electrical tape [temporarily] to check if it was the prob, it was. So I thought that explained the odd readings every now and again. Should one radiator fan be running ALL THE TIME? or do they both kick on when needed or when AC is on?) So I started to think waterpump, but I had replaced it last year with TB, theres no coolant leaking, & my heater works fine. BUT there is a rumbling/knocking/grinding sort of noise coming from the front of engine, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT IS? PS I found a video on YouTube of a 96 Subaru Outback that makes the same sort of noise, So I thought it would be the waterpump but in the comments a person had said it sounds like a power steering pump like one he had had to replace.
YOU TUBE VIDEO}---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsZsBpF3YAg

#2 88coupe

88coupe

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 62 posts
  • astoria

Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:37 AM

COME ON PEOPLE!!! I NEED TO GET THIS FIXED BY MID AFTERNOON, SO PLEASE GIVE ME SOME CLUES/HYPOTHESIZES!

Does the WP usually fail with no waringing signs? Besides the "WEEPING" of coolant? Is that typical of a Subaru WP to grumble/grind when not functioning?
(Im sure theres probably a 100 ways they can fail)
But what noise would a f#<ked up WP make?
Would it cause the hose to swell if coolant isn't getting dispersed?
Does one RAD Cooling Fan run constantly? Or do they both turn on when needed/AC is activated?
Does a knock sensor effect fuel econ. and performance noticeably?

Edited by 88coupe, 05 May 2012 - 10:03 AM.


#3 1997reduxe

1997reduxe

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 274 posts
  • Houston

Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:09 AM

How many miles on the car & how long since the timing belt was changed?
That noise in the video sounds like a water pump, but it's kind of hard to tell exactly without standing in front of car. Does it sound like it's coming from underneath the front of engine on driver's side? That's where the wp is.

I had a water pump make that sound for a while and still drove it. It was amazing how much play there was in its bearing after they took it out, and it still worked. I finally was motivated to get it done after coolant poured through the bearing. But I suppose it could just break inside where it wasn't turning at all, or since the thermostat's right there inside the wp it's not functioning or damaged thus causing coolant blockage.

But the other main thing you have to worry about other than coolant problems is the timing belt also drives the wp, and you'd better get the whole belt kit and pulleys changed along with wp. Most kits come with one. (Example: search ebay for "master timing belt kit" and it should come up with importexperts. You don't want the timing to slip etc by play in wp, but the 95 is not an interference engine.

Edited by 1997reduxe, 05 May 2012 - 10:13 AM.


#4 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,303 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

how many milles?

they don't always ''weep'', not subaru pumps. i would pull the timing covers on the cams and take a look at the belt.

did you replace the 4 pulleys with the timing belt last year? one of those, the toothed one probably, could be going bad. if not replaced last year then that is where i would start. once the toothed pulley seizes, the belt will break. the other smooth pulleys and the water pump will allow the engine / timing belt to continue running, slipping on the smooth surface. at least for a while until the belt over heats and breaks. the only good news here is there will be no engine damage on a 95.

or go to the parts store and buy a ''mechanics stethoscope'', less than $10, and find the ''loudest'' place the noise is, that is where the problem is.

the water pump will not, cannot cause enough pressure to swell a rad hose. but overheating and age will balloon a hose and burst it. by the way, once it swells, it is a weak point and should be replaced.

the fan issue could cause over heating. one fan comes on as needed. the second one comes on when the AC comes on. if the first one was not working right that is probably why the hose was swelling.

#5 88coupe

88coupe

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 62 posts
  • astoria

Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:15 AM

95 Subaru Legacy Wagon "L": 249,xxx mi. It has been roughly 7-10K mi's since WP replacement. I havent really got underneath the car yet to pin point the noise exactly, but it seems to be coming from that area. Does a failing Power Steering Pump make that noise?
I had recently added that SUBARU COOLANT CONDITIONER to the system, would that cause any problems?
I had been worried about a head gasket leak but Im not sure now, becuase it could be symptoms of the WP noy functioning properly.

Edited by 88coupe, 05 May 2012 - 10:23 AM.


#6 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,303 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:20 AM

you may be able to put your hand on the steering pump and tell if that is the source of the noise.

a stethoscope would pin point it.

#7 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Members
  • 4,704 posts
  • Texas

Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:22 AM

Sounds like you may have 2-3 problems.

At the age of your car, almost anything made of rubber could be bad or is risky to run. That includes seals and hoses. If the radiator had excess pressure but the overflow tank was not full, 'boiling over', I'd be concerned about radiator caps, coolant thermostats (only use OEM t'stats or possibly the Stant Xacstst 170deg. - others won't work well in soobs) and possibly radiator clogged-type problems. Might not hurt to use one of the chemical headgasket test kits from the parts store to help eliminate that possibility.

The rad. fans on some soobs have a complicated schedule hinging around coolant temp, A/C use and ambient air temp. But I have no idea if that applies to your 95. In most cases though, if the car is warmed up and the outsides temps are high enough to require A/C, I'd expect both fans to be on when the A/C compressor is on.

If the car has been driven when in an overheated condition, there certainly could be internal engine damage. Perhaps you could idle the car with the hood up, and try to pin down the noises location. In my recent experience, power steering noise is a whine caused by bubbles sucked in to the PS fluid but, certainly PS pumps could fail. Again, try to pin down the location of the noise. A weak TB tensioner might let the belt knock against the inside of the TB cover.

oops! - looks like everyone woke up the same time today! - uh, what they said

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 05 May 2012 - 10:25 AM.


#8 88coupe

88coupe

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 62 posts
  • astoria

Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:25 AM

How long should a WP last? I would think longer than 10k. If it matters at all I got the WP from NAPA along with the TB.
I had replaced the RAD. when I did the WP & TB, also hoses. (the little one, I beleive its the heater core?)
The car has not been driven in overheated state, both fans kick on when AC is on. I just thought that one fan ran all the time.
The car runs pretty darn good, but the CEL has thrown me a Knock Sensor Code. I had tried to clean up a few of my sensors & the Knock is cracked & split, so I assume thats why its tripping the code CORRECT? Does the Knock Sensor effect fuel econ and performance quite noticeably?

Edited by 88coupe, 05 May 2012 - 10:32 AM.


#9 ivans imports

ivans imports

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 2,932 posts
  • lumby bc canada

Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:36 AM

the cogged idler pully on water pump dont run it till changed thiss is very common problem

#10 1997reduxe

1997reduxe

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 274 posts
  • Houston

Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:19 PM

well i'm looking right here at the new wp i got with the tb kit for my 95, and it's a smooth pulley...
but yeah, if at like 225,000 you changed only the wp and belt, that's a sure recipe for problems. you gotta think, those pulleys and idlers, have been turning (and or sitting) in temp changes etc for like almost 20 years?
(If they've never been changed.) I'd definitely go with John, and take the tb cover off and check it out. before driving anymore.
'97

#11 88coupe

88coupe

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 62 posts
  • astoria

Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:47 PM

I changed the Timing Belt, WaterPump and Rad at 239,xxx. Im sure i should have went & got the TB kit but I bought the car for $437 from a guy who thought that he blew the motor but I did some research & got some help from USMB & took the chance. My thought was the WP was toast & it was seized completely solid and the TB was gettin just cooked.

#12 1997reduxe

1997reduxe

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 274 posts
  • Houston

Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:25 PM

well, then you've answered the question yourself. if the waterpump was completely seized you need to go inside and check/change all pulleys and do complete timing belt service. including oil pump resealing and o-ring, you might even want a new oil pump, (can find "cheap" oem on ebay), but that's my own opinion.
the thing is, you can imagine the pressure/tension on all tb parts when that belt in said seized state torqued your system.
'97

#13 88coupe

88coupe

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 62 posts
  • astoria

Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:30 AM

Ok, so I got down to the TB, WP & pulleys and started the car, NOTHING! There was no noise, everything was in proper working order, nothing was loose or out of alignment. So now Im kinda stumped, I think it might be the ALT. It was the only pulley acting odd when turned by hand, it would "freeze up" randomly and would make a lil noise. Could an ALT make a grinding sortof ratchet?

#14 doc526

doc526

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 113 posts
  • Dallas, GA

Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:16 AM

It can. I had a cheap autozone alt go bad within 200 miles of installing it.

Since you can feel the alt freeze up as you turn it that you found atleast one problem. Sounds like one of the bearings in the alt went bad.

I would also at the very least replace the bubbled hose too and go from there.

Like some of the other responses mentioned, get a mechanics stethoscope. They are great for finding problems like this. Harbor Freight has one (pn 41966) for 3.99.

Good luck!

Edited by doc526, 06 May 2012 - 08:29 AM.


#15 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Members
  • 4,704 posts
  • Texas

Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:54 AM

look on the inside of the TB covers for anyplace where the belt may have been rubbing. I've read of people hearing a knocking noise from a flopping timeing belt.

If the alt pulley is suspect, but you're not quite sure. Take it to O'Reilly's or someplace to be tested. Should hear it make noise during the test. Also, compare the way it feels to the one they will try to sell you.

While you're there, consider getting a new radiator cap, and a Stant Xacstat t'stat 170deg., and maybe a headdgaset test kit.

#16 WoodsWagon

WoodsWagon

    Formerly 91Loyale

  • Members
  • 3,945 posts
  • NH

Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:42 AM

well i'm looking right here at the new wp i got with the tb kit for my 95, and it's a smooth pulley...

Not the water pump pulley but the cogged idler that bolts into the water pump. The timing belt does a 90 degree wrap around the idler before running over the water pump pulley, so that idler sees more stress than any other on the engine. I've had them seize and rip it's bolt and a chunk out of the waterpump and I've also had the bearing disintegrate so the idler was running metal on metal and grinding it's way into the oil pump pressure relief boss.

Both cars came in running but making noise.

#17 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,734 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:12 PM

Was the crankshaft pulley bolt TIGHT? I mean really tight. If you didn't see the breaker bar flex while you were loosening it then it wasn't tight enough, and was probably wobbling around. Check the notch in the pulley for the key, and check the key on the crankshaft. Does either have rounded corners, gouges?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users