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HG job finished :) Wont start :( - EDIT - Will Start :) Day 3 Update


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46 replies to this topic

#1 samneric

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 07:26 PM

Got it back together today but it isn't starting. Turning over with no attemp at ignition.

Couple of questions first before I need to trouble shoot further...

What should connect here? I had left a screw in it during dis-assembly but cant find what to connect to it..
Posted Image


After first fail, I realised engine earth wasn't connected :rolleyes:

I connected it here because I forgot where it originally connected:
Posted Image

Should it have connected here? The machine shop removed all bolts I had left in so don't know if it should be here or not.
Posted Image

I'm sure that the starting issues revolve around these questions - must be missing an earth somewhere..

Thanks for help!

Steve

Edited by samneric, 17 June 2012 - 11:57 AM.


#2 lmdew

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 08:18 PM

First picture is the bolt that holds the lifting lug and the bracket that all of the harness connections are on.

Second picture should be the battery ground if it's not on the starter flange bracket.

3rd picture is the other ground you have hooked to the battery position.

From memory but I think thats all correct.

#3 samneric

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 08:50 PM

On the first, the bolt hole that I think something goes on is just behind the lifting lug bracket. I took the bolt out of it and used it to secure the battery ground in the second shot.

I am wondering if I missed something that needs bolting to the hole in the first shot.

The third shot is were I think the battery ground needs to connect to instead of where I put it in the second shot.

I wonder if anyone can have a quick look at theirs and see?

#4 Fairtax4me

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:27 PM

The second pic is the main ECU ground and needs to be grounded to the block. Doesn't really matter where. From the factory it is grounded either to the top of the intake near the ignition coil or to the lower rear side of the number 4 intake runner port.

Battery ground (large cable that goes to the battery) connects to an L shaped bracket that is held on by the top bolt of the starter.

#5 samneric

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:04 AM

The second pic is the main ECU ground and needs to be grounded to the block. Doesn't really matter where. From the factory it is grounded either to the top of the intake near the ignition coil or to the lower rear side of the number 4 intake runner port.

Battery ground (large cable that goes to the battery) connects to an L shaped bracket that is held on by the top bolt of the starter.


Ah! that explains what pic #1 is. I must have put that L-shaped bracket on the wrong side as I put it on the same bolt that holds the harness plug bracket on the passenger side.

That also explains #2 because that is where I grounded the battery cable. (it isnt the ECU ground because from what you described, I have that connected to the intake near the ignition coil).

So... it should be starting...

Damn - ho to trouble shoot this nightmare....

Steve

#6 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:42 AM

maybe a crank sensor, or sprocket lug got damaged?

#7 samneric

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:52 AM

That was my theory overnight - but switched the ground over, hooked up the jump leads and BRRRRRUUUUM!

Thanks a lot all :)

Its awesome having you guys for knowledge/help

Steve

#8 samneric

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:15 AM

:banana:
:banana:
:banana:
:banana:

#9 Fairtax4me

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

:banana: <~~~~ one more for good measure.

#10 Olnick

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:15 PM

Its awesome having you guys for knowledge/help


Ain't it the truth. USMB is so much more than a "fix-it message board," it's the way life should be lived!

Here's one more for good measure: :banana:

#11 samneric

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:12 PM

Ain't it the truth. USMB is so much more than a "fix-it message board," it's the way life should be lived!

Here's one more for good measure: :banana:


You know what it was?!

It was my "friend" who was "helping out" and didn't plug the alternator plug in all the way :)

That's why it started with a jump but then .... died within 10 secs... but all's well that end's well - my car's back :) :headbang::headbang:

Steve

#12 samneric

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:17 PM

Ain't it the truth. USMB is so much more than a "fix-it message board," it's the way life should be lived!

Here's one more for good measure: :banana:


Yeah, if it helps one more poor soul out of a fix, then... it is... "The Ultimate Subaru Message Board" !. We should print a secon wave of tee-shirts.. I got one of the first - now I need another!

Steve

#13 samneric

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:29 PM

Update after a day's trip to work and back (about 20 miles one way and LOTS of sitting).

Not far from home and the needle rose to 3/4, then went down when driving.

Got home and looked at the water bottle. Level was normal (not overflowing like before) but there were big bubbles.

Let it sit and opened it up. Filled up to top on both sides and started it again. No bubbles.

Was it just another air pocket that was blowing big bubbles out?

I will check again when I get to work tomorrow.

Concerned a little bit.

Although I think I've read stories of bubbles caused by air pockets so not frantic - yet :)

Steve

#14 lostinthe202

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:44 PM

You might want to give more details. What Year/model is your engine?

What work did you actually have done?

You say, "the machine shop removed the bolts I had left in" does this mean you took the engine to a shop? Did they have the whole car? What work did they perform exactly?

What were the symptoms that lead you to repair the engine in the first place?

By "water bottle" do you mean the radiator or the coolant overflow bottle? Saying that you filled the water bottle from both sides suggests the radiator, but is that what you meant?

Did you fill the engine with coolant after the HG job or did the shop do it?

This board is great for getting answers to your questions, but it is REALLY important that you give as much of the facts surrounding your problem that you can so that the board can answer your questions accurately.

Good luck

Will-

#15 samneric

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:05 PM

You might want to give more details. What Year/model is your engine?

What work did you actually have done?

You say, "the machine shop removed the bolts I had left in" does this mean you took the engine to a shop? Did they have the whole car? What work did they perform exactly?

What were the symptoms that lead you to repair the engine in the first place?

By "water bottle" do you mean the radiator or the coolant overflow bottle? Saying that you filled the water bottle from both sides suggests the radiator, but is that what you meant?

Did you fill the engine with coolant after the HG job or did the shop do it?

This board is great for getting answers to your questions, but it is REALLY important that you give as much of the facts surrounding your problem that you can so that the board can answer your questions accurately.

Good luck

Will-


Sure, its an '98 OBW with 224k miles on it (EJ25D).

The initial symptoms I had (last year) were small bubbles in the overflow tank and overheating on long journeys. The over heats got more frequent and more and more water started getting pushed into the (overflow) bottle. It got to the point wher I could only drive 2 miles before overheating.

I bought the engine re-seal kit and started work on replacing the HGs 3 months ago. I got the heads off and gave them to a machine shop to recondition. After 3 weeks I got them back and continued with my job.

I finally got the engine back in and started it for the first time Sunday.

I filled it with water and burped it once (filled rad with water/coolant from main inlet and from vent plug hole (passenger side)). When water came out of vent side during filling from main inlet I replaced cap and vent plug.

Drove car to work today and repeated vent/main inlet refilling procedure when I got home.

steve

#16 samneric

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:08 PM

Oh yes, used Subaru head gaskets (layered design) and followed the installation procedure from Haynes manual *religiously*.

The final tightening being a number of degrees rather than a troque setting which I thought was bizzare - but did it anyway.

Steve

#17 Fairtax4me

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:00 AM

I don't think you got enough coolant in the system. You should be able to pour in close to a gallon and a half on initial fill with an empty block. Fill the block first, then radiator.

Torque sequence is to tighten all 90 degrees then tighten all 90 degrees again. You did do the second 90 degrees right? :confused:

#18 samneric

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:25 AM

I don't think you got enough coolant in the system. You should be able to pour in close to a gallon and a half on initial fill with an empty block. Fill the block first, then radiator.

Torque sequence is to tighten all 90 degrees then tighten all 90 degrees again. You did do the second 90 degrees right? :confused:


Yes indeed! I had a buddy helping out who read and re-read the instructions and it was apparent from the first 90 degrees that it wasnt enough.

Yeah, I filled the rad with 1 gallon of antifreeze and topped up with water - ran it then filled up from the vent side (which I suspect is filling the block because that return pipe (passenger side to to of rad) doesn't fill with water if you just fill up from the main inlet.

I'm guessing that an air pocket from the block/heater core made it back to the rad after my first day's drive.

We'll see today - just wanted to know if anyone else has got the big bubbles from an air pocket.

Steve

#19 samneric

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:30 AM

Well.. verdict's in... Lots more big bubbles and discoloured water.

Its ************ed.

I wish I'd have known before putting 2000 into it.

Steve

:mad:

#20 Fairtax4me

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:20 AM

Your antifreeze mix in the system is something like 70/30 coolant/water. Possibly as much as 75/25. Antifreeze doesn't dissipate heat well, that's why it has to be mixed with water. Too little water and the antifreeze will boil.

Try one more time, drain that stuff out. Pour half a gallon of Antifreeze into two bottles (1/2 in each) fill the rest of the way with water for perfect 50/50 mix.
Remove the upper radiator hose, fill the block FIRST with coolant with a funnel or through the hose. Quickly reinstall the upper hose and fill the radiator with the bleed plug open. Close the bleed plug and start the engine, top off if necessary, cap the radiator and let the engine warm up. Fill the reservoir to the max/ full line. After the engine reaches operating temp turn off and let it cool completely. Top off radiator if necessary.
Also, if you don't have a Subaru thermostat in it get one.

#21 samneric

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:02 PM

Your antifreeze mix in the system is something like 70/30 coolant/water. Possibly as much as 75/25. Antifreeze doesn't dissipate heat well, that's why it has to be mixed with water. Too little water and the antifreeze will boil.

Try one more time, drain that stuff out. Pour half a gallon of Antifreeze into two bottles (1/2 in each) fill the rest of the way with water for perfect 50/50 mix.
Remove the upper radiator hose, fill the block FIRST with coolant with a funnel or through the hose. Quickly reinstall the upper hose and fill the radiator with the bleed plug open. Close the bleed plug and start the engine, top off if necessary, cap the radiator and let the engine warm up. Fill the reservoir to the max/ full line. After the engine reaches operating temp turn off and let it cool completely. Top off radiator if necessary.
Also, if you don't have a Subaru thermostat in it get one.


Righty-ho. Will try that tonight. I have also ordered a Subaru radiator cap which I will pick up tomorrow. No idea what the one I have on is.

I bought and installed a Subaru thermostat as part of the HG job. One question with it I guess - are you supposed to put the gasket "around" the lip of the thermostat housing? The gasket I got had a slit in it all the way around that I presumed was for that purpose. Otherwise I could see you putting the gasket in the block then placing the thermostat on top of it - but that would seem awkward.

Steve

#22 Fairtax4me

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:07 PM

Yeah the gasket fits around the edge of the thermostat.

#23 samneric

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:43 PM

OK evening update.

A little bit of stress is relieved.

I got paranoid today so I decided to buy a combustion gas leak test kit.

Performed the test - the water stayed blue :) :banana:

So what ever it was, it wasn't combustion gases that are causing the bubbles (Unless I did the test wrong :brow:)

Anyway - mixed the magic concoction of coolant/water so it is EXACTLY 50/50. Followed your instructions on re-filling Fairtax. It is sitting in its cool-down phase now from your list.

It did start overheating and the heat blew cold which happened on Sunday as well until I repeated the whole procedure a couple of times.

One question I do have is: did I hook the heater core hoses up wrong. I presently have the uppermost engine hose (coming from the diagonal water pipe across the engine) going to the driver side of the heater core. The lower engine hose obviously goes to the passenger side. Is this correct?!

Will repeat the steps once I've have something to eat...

Steve

#24 Fairtax4me

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:07 PM

Doesn't matter which way the core gets hooked up, as fluid flows freely through the core at all times, but the hoses do somewhat reach only to the pipe they're supposed to connect to. If you hook one up wrong, and it's easy, the other will be a b o itch because of the way they're routed.
I believe you have them hooked up correctly.

The combustion gas testers seem to work the best when the engine is hot and bubbling, even though that's kind of the worst time to try and test them, that's when the most gases will be present.

Have faith! This stuff can be frustrating but don't give up until the cows leave home... or something to that effect. :popcorn:

#25 samneric

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:44 PM

Maybe I should just hook up the exhaust gas test up to the overflow bottle after a run :rolleyes:

Steve




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