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5lug + FWD>AWD - 90 fwd loyale 3 door


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31 replies to this topic

#1 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 03:17 AM

So i'm finally gearing up (pun intended) for my 5 lug swap and awd conversion. No EJ swap yet..

My FWD 90 loyale 3 door is mostly stock, fwd3at swapped to fwd5mt but otherwise unmolested. Over the last few weeks I have been collecting and buying parts like a fiend, just looking for advice to make sure my bases are covered. I've raped the search, not looking for answers to obvious questions just general advice and reassurance (lol). Most of the parts were pulled from pick and pull from various vehicles, hopefully everything in working order.

Here's what I have collected so far:
4wd 5lug rear hubs + 1 spare
Rear subframe (4wd)
4wd trailing arms with swaybar mounts
Rear swaybar (20mm)
XT6 LCA+BJ 2x (new) + driver side spare w/bj
Front swaybar (19mm)
XT4 Steering rack (+RallyRuss bracket/bushing) with xt rod ends
5MT Dualrange 3.7 (w/linkage&difflock)
5MT Dualrange 3.7 (spare w/blown 2nd)
3.7 LSD+full driveshaft w/carrier bearing/stock mount
Mustache bar
Rear KYB shocks w/196# springs (ea wagon)
Front KYB struts w/196# springs (07 imp obs)
Handbrake+brackets w/cables (07 imp obs)
turbo crossmember +~1inch trackwidth (for ej swap later maybe)

Still need:
rear backing plates+ebrake and full brake assembly (ej maybe wrx)
front knuckles and full brake assembly
misc bearings/bushings
ea81 tie rod ends?? (unless turbo crossmember is used)

I have legacy front knucks also but i'm not sure if I will use them.

Things to figure out:
-drill/tap or bolt in carrier bearing and mustache bar
-decide which brakes/wheels to use
-drill/weld rear ej backing plates for ea trailing arm
-brake lines?
-wire brush and paint rusty parts

Anything else that I am missing?????? Anyone have advice and or pictures of the fabricated mounts for the carrier bearing and/or mustache bar?

rear end mock up:
Posted Image

lookie what I found under the muck:
Posted Image

Edited by Ibreakstuff, 27 June 2012 - 03:27 AM.


#2 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 03:39 PM

Still can't find a picture of someone mounting the carrier bearing or mustache bar in a fwd chassis, all of the old links are dead. I'm going to take pictures of whatever I figure out so it can be documented for future swappers.

Edit: found a picture of the carrier bearing!!!! (thanks NUMBCHUX)

Posted Image

Not sure how that would hold up to rally abuse, but gives a mental picture to go on for sure.

Looking at the mustache bar mounting location, going to probably just drill/tap with m10 and call it a day. If it strips out later then I can just drill it out and use a bolt/nut.

Edited by Ibreakstuff, 27 June 2012 - 03:55 PM.
found a picture


#3 Caboobaroo

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 08:06 PM

Check out this folder of pictures from a car I'm actually stripping currently. Was the same as your car (3AT FWD) and I converted it to an AWD 5-speed and 5-lug conversion at once. Welded in brackets for the driveline and worked fine for lots of abuse. I also drilled holes from underneath through the floor in the cargo area and dropped some bolts down from the top to hold the brackets in.

What else do you have questions on? Care to break it down a bit?

Oh and here the link to my pics.
http://rides.webshot...555167621jgSQVh

#4 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 09:20 PM

Check out this folder of pictures from a car I'm actually stripping currently. Was the same as your car (3AT FWD) and I converted it to an AWD 5-speed and 5-lug conversion at once. Welded in brackets for the driveline and worked fine for lots of abuse. I also drilled holes from underneath through the floor in the cargo area and dropped some bolts down from the top to hold the brackets in.

What else do you have questions on? Care to break it down a bit?

Oh and here the link to my pics.
http://rides.webshot...555167621jgSQVh


This is exactly what I needed, excellent pictures!!! Thank you Caboobaroo!

I didn't even realize there was a bracket for the mustache bar pin, I assumed it was actually welded to the body. All of the pick and pull cars are pretty mucked up around here. I'm a novice at all this too, so forgive my ignorance lol.

That was really the only major question I had, I'll probably have more questions later before its all said and done.

#5 Caboobaroo

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:02 PM

The bracket actually bolts to a pair of studs that are part of the unibody. Once you get underneath it, you will see indents in the bottom side of the frame rail where they would be. I just drilled straight up through the floor of the car and dropped the bolts down from the top, to give me a "stud".

#6 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:15 PM

Damn, sounds too easy. :brow:

I'll go pickup that bracket tomorrow! Extremely excited now. I'm going to try and get the rest of the brake parts as well tomorrow. Then I'll be ready to swap it all this weekend.

Thanks again for the guidance.

#7 Numbchux

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:41 PM

yea, those carrier bearing mounts didn't work out so hot. Not very solid, and not in the correct place, so I chewed through a couple bearings.

I then had an EA81 1-piece driveshaft modified for length to work in there, and it's been running awesome ever since!


Drilled and tapped mustache bar mounts have held up wonderfully as well. Probably 5ish years, and easily 50k miles. It's still on the road today.

#8 Caboobaroo

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:42 PM

No problem. I've done quite a few 5-lug conversions along with modifications and upgrades on EA82s, especially that whole 3AT FWD -> FT4wd 5-speed conversion. I actually have just about finished up a huge brake and suspension overhaul on my XT6 too:headbang:

#9 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:38 AM

yea, those carrier bearing mounts didn't work out so hot. Not very solid, and not in the correct place, so I chewed through a couple bearings.

I then had an EA81 1-piece driveshaft modified for length to work in there, and it's been running awesome ever since!

Drilled and tapped mustache bar mounts have held up wonderfully as well. Probably 5ish years, and easily 50k miles. It's still on the road today.


Hrmm 1 piece would probably work great since I am not lifting it. There is a local driveshaft company that is less than a mile from my house, maybe I'll get an estimate just for ************es and giggles.

BTW thanks for the EJ swap information you have out there, that will be the next project after this swap and getting my wrx out of the garage. I might hit you up for a harness merge if your still doing them.

No problem. I've done quite a few 5-lug conversions along with modifications and upgrades on EA82s, especially that whole 3AT FWD -> FT4wd 5-speed conversion. I actually have just about finished up a huge brake and suspension overhaul on my XT6 too:headbang:


Right on, good luck with your projects. The more XT's I see in the junkyard, the more I want one lol. Subaru's really are like lays potato chips, you can't eat just one.

I was considering larger brakes but it would limit the ability to use 13/14 inch steelies. If I do cage it up for stage rally in the future, it would be nice to use smaller rally tires for the extra acceleration on certain rallys with elevation changes. Probably just going with the most common 266x10mm rears since its the easiest to get spares.


Update: Gutted the ride tonight, carpet/passenger/ rear seats are on the way to the landfill. I wonder if I can drive in the carpool lane now that its a 1 seater?

Tomorrow I get to add another layer of sunburn while pulling more pnp parts, woohoo! zzz

#10 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:42 PM

Came home last night with rear brakes from a 95 legacy and the mustache bar pin bracket! Hammering out the rear hubs at PNP was not very fun, I guess I should have bought the proper tool for field stripping a hub.

#11 Caboobaroo

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 04:49 PM

Came home last night with rear brakes from a 95 legacy and the mustache bar pin bracket! Hammering out the rear hubs at PNP was not very fun, I guess I should have bought the proper tool for field stripping a hub.


Did you get both brackets from either side for the mustache bar?

Once you get your old brakes off, you should be able to modify the backing plate from the Legacy to bolt onto the trailing arm. I ended up drilling one hole and modified two existing ones that were on my WRX backing plates.

#12 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:35 PM

Did you get both brackets from either side for the mustache bar?

Once you get your old brakes off, you should be able to modify the backing plate from the Legacy to bolt onto the trailing arm. I ended up drilling one hole and modified two existing ones that were on my WRX backing plates.


Yep, got both of them and their bolts. I'm going to attempt to drill and tap and reuse the same hardware. If this doesn't work I'll drill it out and use bolts like you did. Thanks again for those pictures, my head doesn't hurt as much now.

The plan for the rear brakes is to cut a small template out of the old backing plates.. Weld it on top of the legacy backing plate and just redrill the holes. The 2 hurdles are removing the abs crap and figuring out the proper orientation that the calipers need to be at. I'll try to take some pictures.

Was planning get moving on the swap this weekend but my better half wants us to go visit friends in sacramento.. :banghead:

#13 Caboobaroo

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:01 PM

The difference between the diameter of the center hole on the backing plates you got are only 1/8" if that. I'm probably eventually going to weld in some support around the bolts myself once I get the car back to a daily drivable status.

What ABS crap are you talking about? The tone rings? My rear brakes look completely stock except there is no tone ring on the back of my hub (XT6 hubs dont have holes for the rings to bolt to) and no ABS sensor. I also don't have any tone rings on the front hubs since I got my parts from a non ABS car BUT they still have the spot for the sensor in the backing plates. Since your car never came equipped with ABS, you won't need the tone rings and sensors.

#14 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 04:04 AM

The difference between the diameter of the center hole on the backing plates you got are only 1/8" if that. I'm probably eventually going to weld in some support around the bolts myself once I get the car back to a daily drivable status.

What ABS crap are you talking about? The tone rings? My rear brakes look completely stock except there is no tone ring on the back of my hub (XT6 hubs dont have holes for the rings to bolt to) and no ABS sensor. I also don't have any tone rings on the front hubs since I got my parts from a non ABS car BUT they still have the spot for the sensor in the backing plates. Since your car never came equipped with ABS, you won't need the tone rings and sensors.


Yep, I was tempted to just drill the plates out and use it like so but was worried about how well it would hold up to rally abuse. A welded plate on top seems to be the way to go.

The ABS crap is just the part where the sensor was attached, its a small little tube and a welded nut. I just need to dremel the welds to remove them completely. I guess I could just leave them but it would give more room to weld.

Edited by Ibreakstuff, 30 June 2012 - 04:30 AM.


#15 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:03 AM

I'll post a small update with some teaser pictures. Real life has been kicking me in the nuts so I have not been able to work on this project as much as I have wanted to. I've been tinkering with the gearboxes too, still not sure which direction I want to go yet.. torsen front/open center/clutch lsd rear seems to be the cheapest, but the idea of dccd or vlsd center is pretty tempting.

Done so far:
rear 4wd trailing arms fitted
rear legacy brakes fitted
rear handbrake fitted
rear suspension sorted

In the next 24 hours, I should have this done:
steering rack swap
front struts fitted
front spindles fitted

I did not realize that FWD wagon springs were so tall, so I cut them down to 11 inches to fit the rear shocks without too much preload. That should put them to ~220 lbs. They feel much much much better than the stock springs. I'm doing a rallycross this weekend so we will see how it does.

And the goods:
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Bling bling some throw back 5zigen fireballs?!?
Posted Image

#16 86 Wonder Wedge

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:35 AM

This is looking so good! following it with much interest as my 91 will soon be getting the AWD treatment! (and an EJ204.. :D )

But I BELIEVE the JDM STi (GC8) transaxles came with LSD (Torsens) in the front diff, plus they all came with the "more sensitive" VLSD center diff vs. the USDM WRX or std. 5 speeds... I KNOW the USDM STis had the Torsen front diff, but cha ching on getting one of those bad boys...

#17 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:36 AM

5 lug is done, finally I can get rid of all of my 4 lug rims! Big front sway bar and strut tower brace fitted as well.

It was raining all weekend, I still need to flush the old PS pump and finish installing the new steering rack.

Issues I ran into:
-The radius rod bolts strip VERY easily and are VERY hard to break loose. I used a floor jack under my 3 foot breaker bar to keep the socket seated while breaking it loose. It helps to leave the sway bar attached when doing this. Impact would not budge these on my car. You can lock the topside of the bolt by using a wrench pinched against the other bolt head.
-Lower spring perch from the 07 struts was rubbing the inside lip of the strut tower. And some of the bolts on the driver side strut tower were a little long too (coil mount and ground bolt). BFH and an angle grinder made quick work of both problems. I just shaved enough for clearance turning lock to lock.

More pictures soon..

#18 el_freddo

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:30 AM

I did not realize that FWD wagon springs were so tall, so I cut them down to 11 inches to fit the rear shocks without too much preload. That should put them to ~220 lbs. They feel much much much better than the stock springs. I'm doing a rallycross this weekend so we will see how it does.


It's not the springs that are different, it's the strut length. Sedan or 2wd rear struts are longer for the lower mounting point on the 2wd rear swing arm. Swapping the 2wd arm for the 4wd arm bumps up the rear height - even with the same springs. I can't remember what the difference is but it's not a lot!

All the best with the rallycross!

Cheers

Bennie

#19 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:48 AM

It's not the springs that are different, it's the strut length. Sedan or 2wd rear struts are longer for the lower mounting point on the 2wd rear swing arm. Swapping the 2wd arm for the 4wd arm bumps up the rear height - even with the same springs. I can't remember what the difference is but it's not a lot!

All the best with the rallycross!

Cheers

Bennie


Yea lol, I read something about that before pulling the 2wd wagon springs. (I always have to learn everything the hard way anways.) I thought the springs would be the same but the 2wd wagon springs I pulled were significantly taller than 4wd springs.

Heading out at 5am to drive 300 miles, to look at a 87 RX parts car. I'm taking home as many parts as I can pull before running out of daylight. Hopefully the spoiler/body kit/rear arms/lsd/gearbox are still there. Kinda going on a whim lol, no idea what actually left on the car. From what I am told it is rusted out pretty bad.

Here are those 2wd wagon springs on 4wd struts (before cutting them)... so much preload they had zero travel..

Posted Image

Edited by Ibreakstuff, 26 November 2012 - 05:01 AM.


#20 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:22 AM

Heading out at 5am to drive 300 miles, to look at a 87 RX parts car. I'm taking home as many parts as I can pull before running out of daylight. Hopefully the spoiler/body kit/rear arms/lsd/gearbox are still there. Kinda going on a whim lol, no idea what actually left on the car. From what I am told it is rusted out pretty bad.


Well partial score, no body kit or spoiler but I got another LSD and more rear arms with sway mounts. Finally I can put the fat rear sway on. :banana:

Posted Image

#21 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:12 AM

Oh, I was having problems breaking a rear axle nut loose today with a car that was off the ground. I could have probably tinkered with it and locked the center diff but came up with this method.. thought I should share lol.


Posted Image

#22 Prwa101

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:50 PM

Oh, I was having problems breaking a rear axle nut loose today with a car that was off the ground. I could have probably tinkered with it and locked the center diff but came up with this method.. thought I should share lol.


Posted Image


Works pretty good too if you leave the tire on, while the weight of the car is on it and then up bolt it :drunk:

Looking good man! :banana:

AAE

#23 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:22 PM

Works pretty good too if you leave the tire on, while the weight of the car is on it and then up bolt it :drunk:

Looking good man! :banana:

AAE


Oh no, this car was raised about 3 feet off the ground. And no wheels left hehe (i took that wheel from another car). I scratched my head for about 15 minutes, 24v my rattle gun couldn't even break it loose.

#24 snofool

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 03:53 PM

What did you use for the front knuckles and struts? Did you get rid of your e brake in the front?



#25 Caboobaroo

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:54 PM

What did you use for the front knuckles and struts? Did you get rid of your e brake in the front?


I see you're fairly new to the board so welcome! Might want to check out the USRM for 5-lug tips, tricks and parts list. Would help out for the answer but there are two different versions. Personally, when I do it again on my race car, I'm going to use the EJ knuckles and struts like I did on my XT6. Steering angles are a lot better then the factory XT6 knuckles.




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