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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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greener 2nd gen


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16 replies to this topic

#1 turboguzzi

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 10:26 AM

well, after 10 moths of ownership, i took the plunge and fitted an LPG system to my second gen SW.

and quite plunge it was as the system cost was a quite a bit more than the purchase cost of the car, 1600 euro, around 2000 $.

Sounds steep, but if i had fitted it when i bought the car 13K miles ago, it would have payed for itself already with the current petrol prices round here.

gas bottle takes the place of the spare wheel and the system is digitally controlled with a separate ECU that interfaces the stock ECU. Essentially the car is now bi-fuel, will switch to petrol when the LPG runs out automatically.

The filling port was put under the normal fuel door, at the station i need to screw the silver adapter to fill.

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#2 ivans imports

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 10:27 AM

way cool have ran they race buggy deul feul but never a dayliy driver nice job

#3 turboguzzi

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 10:29 AM

as filling stations across countries in europe have different fittings to hook to the car, i was given some adapters, the bayonet one should work in Holland according to what one of our members says.

doing a "full" and just paying one third of what i paid with petrol sure feels nice already, will report on the actual figures mpg figures, even if its hard to relate LPG gallons to petrol gallons, so it will be more mpd (miles per dollar) or kpe (kilometers per euro) sort of thing :)

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Edited by turboguzzi, 28 June 2012 - 10:34 AM.


#4 rverdoold

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:05 PM

Good to hear you got the conversion.

It took me about 37k km to surpass my investment. Now it drive for 17 eurocent per KM all inclusive (LPG, insurance, maintenance, gasoline, road-tax and 1000 euro yearly depreciation). Without the depreciation it is 13 cent/km.

What tank size you have? and where do you leave the spare?
In holland they unfortunately drill a large hole in the side of the rear wing (which starts rusting again now within a year since I took it apart and cleaned it, and repainted it grrrrrrr).

I use MyCarMon to register all expenses, last time I filled gasoline it was in Livigno for 1.07 /L :D

#5 987687

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 09:17 PM

That's pretty cool. It'll be interesting to see what mileage you get out of that. LPG has a lower specific energy than gas, so it'll be less than gas. I've always wondered if it would break even. LPG is cheaper here, too. But with the lower specific energy I don't think you can win.

#6 turboguzzi

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 02:09 AM

today i am driving with girlfriend + mother in law ::) to Venezia, including some touring in the Colli Euganei area near Padova, it will be a a 500 mile round trip from milano, so will be the first chance to do some fill to fill runs.

there is an italian forum where people report they milleage with petrol vs. LPG and the figures differ by very little, less than 10% but will now better after this weekend.

my car has been very consistent delivering 28-29 mpg since i bought it, kist like my previos Gen 1 for the 7 years i owned it

have a good WE

TG

#7 rverdoold

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:38 AM

Venice is nice, did trip last year from Arco (near Riva-del-garda) was quite surprised it was hard to get LPG on the autostrada from Padova to Verona.

Curious about the MPG you get. On LPG I get 11 km/L or ~26 MPG (on gasoline it is about 33 MPG) with the 1.6 impreza awd

#8 turboguzzi

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:23 PM

well, back from the weekend trip and honestly, car goes just as well with the LPG in terms of pull, even if i was definitely not trying too hard with GF and her mother aboard, just doing highway droning at 120kmh/75 mph most of the time

well, it took exactly two refills of the LPG tank to get the exact 720 km range of one gasoline tankful, so quite easy to do the math of the savings:

one tankful / 60L of petrol is circa 100-105 euro in italy
two tankfulls of LPG have cost 60 euro so in terms of km/L or mpg, the LPG gives 40% savings. at 40 euro savings per tank, it will take the equivalent of 40 tanks to get my investment back, that is exactly 28,000 km, that would be less than a year and a half at the rate i pack on my miles with more savings due to reduced road tax here for "clean cars".

With much cheaper gas prices of the USA guess it will take quite a bit longer to amortize the investment in the system.

But in Europe at least, sounds like a win-win situation to me :)

just sorry i didnt do it sooner!

#9 rverdoold

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:42 PM

LPG for the win :headbang:

(which brand system do you have installed and does your 2.0 has hydraulic lash adjusters of manual valve adjustment? I had the valves adjusted every 35K but will move that to 50K km now)

#10 turboguzzi

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:14 AM

my gen2 Legacy's got a 2000cc motor with hydraulic adjusters, so no sweat :)

the gas system is made by "romano gas"

http://www.romanoaut...me&lang=English

#11 turboguzzi

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:38 PM

a bit more visuals of the install

44L/11 gallon tank sits in the spare wheel well

some extra ventilation holes been added for safety in case of leak

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#12 turboguzzi

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:43 PM

sequential separate injectors, one per inlet runner
ECU with separate mapping for the LPG sys
supply pressure regulator ( i think...)
gas "rail"

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#13 turboguzzi

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:48 PM

the only control/dial added is this little box next to the hand brake

line with 5 leds on the top tells me tank fill level,
G led means system is on LPG
pump icon means its on petrol
little square white button in center lets me switch between LPG and petrol, but car runs on LPG as default, switches to gas automatically if LPG runs out,

so far so good... :)

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#14 rverdoold

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:06 PM

Interesting system. Looks very similar of what I have, only my injectors are mounted differently but also inject directly above the port. Did they take the inlet manifold off the engine? I got a 52L tank and manage to drive about 500 to 600 km depending on temp ect ect.

Curious where did they mount the tube from the tank to the evaporator? With mine the ran it aside of the transmission tunnel and comes in in the wheel-arch on the front right (facing driving direction). I am a bit afraid of stones hitting the tube driving many stoned gravel roads in Scandinavia and Baltics.

#15 mikaleda

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:48 PM

i think this would be great in the usa gas prices are ridiculous right now i would love lpg for my gl

#16 turboguzzi

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 04:12 PM

havent checked where the tube passes

not doing too much dirt roads as much as i did with my 1st gen, so not that worried, but sure its worth checking

i can already see that milleage is very related to outside temp just like the system manual said,

this weekend was 4-5 celsius colder than last and milleage improved quite a bit

#17 rverdoold

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

Also noticed that, however there is a big difference in winter and summer LPG. At least in holland, Germany and Latvia.
What happened to your dual range handle?




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