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More progress/questions on Legacy reseal


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54 replies to this topic

#1 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 04:02 PM

For those that havent seen, Im doing a reseal/timing belt/water pump/clutch job on a 1990 FWD Legacy that was my sisters, now got passed onto my dad. :headbang:

Heres the latest pictures of the engine:
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Heres the problem Im running into... Do I NEED a new clutch? The reason for the reseal was we took the car in for a clutch adjustment because the clutch was acting up. They told us that the motor was dumping so much oil (which was true) that they couldnt even adjust the clutch because the rear main was leaking all over the clutch and the clutch was oil-soaked and needed replacement ("Heres our quote to replace the clutch and adjust it for you") but we didnt have the funds for that... So I started a reseal... Turns out the spring clips for the throwout bearing (terminology?) were missing... one was laying in some oily dirt on the transmission... But heres the clutch that I feel like looks okay and rather new (in the sense its not covered in clutch dust or anything) is it okay? Do I need to get one of those micro gauges to tell?

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#2 cal_look_zero

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 06:37 PM

I would throw a new disc in. It's like $70 for one and will save the headache down the road; especially if the old one was soaked in oil.

#3 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 06:45 PM

I was gonna ask if just throwing in a new disc was okay...

Thanks!

The old one wasnt soaked in oil... its just that the throwout bearing wasnt working right (and when presented with that info, the shop said "they mimic the same symptoms, glad you got it taken care of")

I was just curious if it was okay or not, but Ill throw in a new disc just to be safe :Flame: gonna order one on friday.

#4 Fairtax4me

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 07:18 PM

Just do the whole kit. Why not replace it all while you have access? Order an exedy kit from eBay and have it by the end of the week.

#5 aba4430

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:17 AM

http://www.amazon.co...tsNode=15724081

As said above, do the whole kit. Here are some options. Get new clips etc. from the dealership. You will not have to worry about this at least for several thousand miles.

#6 uniberp

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:30 AM

See other threads for clutch judder possibly caused by a NOT having the flywheel refaced. Pressure plate, IDK?
I wouldn't skip those unless I was willing to live with a grabby clutch or redo the job later.

#7 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:21 PM

Got the back end resealed...

Is there a cover over the driver side rear head seal? The cam cap I believe is the technical term... They gave me 2 seals, but I cant find the second one (if its up front, I havent taken that apart yet, gotta get a 17mm impact socket since Ive broken the others on the cam pulleys... JESUS lol.)

#8 Fairtax4me

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:42 PM

The cam cap on the drivers side is just a rubber coated metal cap. It doesn't usually leak since the cam does not extend past it, but occasionally it will around the edge. It's a pita to replace in the car so if you have access and the part replace it while it's out.

#9 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:26 AM

I replaced it, came in a pack of two, wheres the other one?

I replaced it cuz it was weeping, at least had a decent amount of oil (WET OIL STILL) on it. There was one on the passenger side head too, with a metal cover, but its not the same cap....

#10 grossgary

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 05:32 AM

by "seal" i take it you just mean the oring. a picture would help to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

the cam cap has 2 10mm bolts holding it to the back of the passengers side of the engine. remove that cap and underneath is an oring.
behind the *front* drivers side cam sprocket (and maybe passengers side too?) is the same style cam cap and same exact oring, remove caps and replace. don't look on the back of the drivers side, it's behind the timing belt up front.

if you weren't too put off by removing the motor you could just try to run the clutch as-is and replace it later if needed. makes sense to do it now but sometimes someone doesn't have the money and pulling the motor a second time is a better option...up to you. if the clutch has plenty of material it's likely to last.

disc looks warn but usable, probably has life to it. up to you to determine how much life, how much you don't want to pull the engine again, cost, etc.

#11 ivans imports

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:46 AM

change the oring on back side of cam seal addapter and plug on ps back cam i find theese o rings leak alot

#12 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:46 AM

Cheap chinese disc - which means a cheap chinese pressure plate that's probably weak and causing the slipping.

You will regret installing that. Get an Exedy complete kit.

GD

#13 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 02:39 PM

I am about to head out and start work again on the motor... So I will take a few pics, post them, and continue trying to get the cam sprockets off so I can get to the front seals and the oil pump and water pump and see what replies come up.

You guys are awesome! Thanks

#14 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:59 PM

Well guys, here are the pictures. Its hot outside :( so I just took the oil pump off. It was RTV'd on... Normal? Cuz I was going to use Permatex Red to seal it but I also have ultra gray RTV too... I have a metric O-Ring kit that has *seemingly* the right size O-Ring for the oil pump, so I thought Id throw that in there when I reseal it.

Is there an O-Ring under this? I took it off and didnt see any O-ring, but it didnt appear to be leaking. Passenger side head.
Posted Image

Sorry this is blurry, but is there a cap here? Theres bolt holes, but I didnt remove a cover, but I replaced that cam cap seal... but there were 2 seals in that package and Im not able to locate another one... Nor the cover...
Posted Image

I still need to get my hands on a 17mm socket to get the cam sprockets off, so Im on hold on the front for that...

Heres my up to date laundry list of stuff to do:
PS Cam Seal (from MizumoAuto TB Kit)
DS Cam Seal (from MizumoAuto TB Kit)
Front Main Seal (From MizumoAuto TB Kit)
Reseal Oil Pump (Permatex Red and O-Ring from Assorted Kit)
Water Pump (Aisin, from MizumoAuto TB Kit)
Water Pump By-Pass (Dealer)
Coolant Crossover pipe seals (I used a size from my assorted kit, is this bad?)
Timing Belt with new idlers and tensioners (this will be funny as its been a LONG time since Ive seen it done)
Intake/Exhaust gaskets
Reseal Oil Pan (Ultra Gray RTV)
Upper/Lower Radiator hoses
New Oil
Coolant
Oil Filter
Also NGK Plugs and wires are ready for install.

Less than a week to get the motor into the car... Gotta bust it out :Flame:

Edited by 92_rugby_subie, 11 August 2012 - 08:18 PM.


#15 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 08:05 PM

Added question:

Is it okay to run the outer covers OFF? Front and rear covers would be nice to not have to put on... This car will NOT be offroaded... Just a DD. I mean, come on, its FWD.

#16 Fairtax4me

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 12:42 AM

I have NO covers on my car right now and haven't had any problems. It's been offroad like that in 4ft tall grass, and through a creek a few times up to the door sills. Timing belt is still there. :headbang:

The metal cover on the back of the passenger head has an O ring under it. It's solidified and glued to the cover by now. Just looks like some black stuff in the corner. Take the cover off, use a small screwdriver or pick to break the old O-ring off. It will appear to be a piece of plastic and it will break into several pieces.

The cam plug on the back of the drivers side head, there is only one of those.

The other O-ring goes on the front of the drivers side head. There is a spacer there held on by 3 bolts (one 12mm and two 10mm). Remove the cam sprocket, remove the rear belt cover, and you will see the spacer. That's actually the front cam support bearing, so try not to get a bunch of dirt and crud in there. ;) Make sure it's cleaned out and has a coating of fresh oil before you put it back.

Oil pump. You don't want a "good 'nuff" O-ring there, unless you want to take it apart again to fix the massive leak. Get the blue one from Subaru for $3. It's worth it.

NO RTV on the oil pump. Subaru seals the pump with grey Threebond sealer, similar to RTV, but not quite the same stuff.

RTV on the oil pump seal surface has a tendency to squeeze out into the pump housing, and little bits break off and clog the oil feed ports to the rocker assemblies. If a big enough piece makes it way down there it can clog the feed ports for the camshaft and then the cam will seize in the head.
Use Anaerobic flange sealer on the oil pump. Anaerobic only dries in when compressed and in the complete absence of oxygen. Any that squeezes out will stay liquid, and thus will not cause trouble it if gets into the oil supply ports.
http://permatex.com/...hotos/51531.jpg

#17 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:11 AM

There was RTV on the Oil pump. I have the red stuff from permatex, it says it makes a gasket... Should I return it and try to find something else?

I can go back to the dealer and get the o-rings... Hopefully wont be too bad... got sticker shock already...

So I need the cam o-rings still and the oil pump o-ring.

#18 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:57 PM

Took the water pump off today...
Took the Oil pan off today... (cleaned it, ready to seal it with RTV and put it back on)
Also finally put it on the engine stand so I can rotate it.

Cleaned my surfaces so I can attach the new parts/newly sealed parts so that I get a good clean seal.

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Ugh Im time crunching this big time I have until Friday to finish it... Gonna run completely coverless. Hopefully will have a 17mm socket to take the cam sprockets off so I can seal them.

New questions:
- Is there a timing belt write-up for the EJ22?
- Can I use this to seal the oil pump and water pump? When I asked for anaerobic sealer, this is what I received... but I was thinking loctite 518 like Ive seen GD use...
Posted Image

#19 Crazyeights

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:13 PM

You could use it on the water pump I suppose, just don't use very much. I REALLY wouldn't use that on the oil pump though. You have gone to all this trouble and it's looking good, so you will want to finish it correctly. Specify exactly the type of sealer you want (by part number) and someone will get it for you.

Beer Garage EJ oil pump re-seal

Someone has already listed the reasons why above in another post. I personally don't really use that much RTV anymore, it does have it's applications however most of the time there are much better alternatives.

#20 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:30 PM

So that is not anaerobic sealer, which is what I asked for... Thats what I needed to know, time to go give it back and get the good stuff. I dont want to put this back together and have it leak, the clutch will be replaced later on when the transmission is done, but the motor needs to be in tip top shape by Friday, dont wanna use the wrong stuff... Gonna go get the other o-rings from the dealer and will get anaerobic sealer.

#21 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:21 PM

I have only a single tube of RTV at my new shop and its copper RTV for high temp exhaust applications - to help seal exhaust gaskets on damaged surfaces which happens occasionally with exhaust....

There are applications where RTV is the only good solution - GM intake manifolds for example - where the gap is too large for an anaerobic flange sealer.

But for an EJ Subaru engine I no longer use any RTV. I use 518 for oil pan, oil pump, water pump and any place else I need a liquid seal product. It's benefits are many and it has no drawbacks that I have encountered.

GD

#22 presslab

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:33 PM

Loctite 518 is indeed the good stuff, it is anaerobic so it won't clog oil gallerys.

#23 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:10 PM

So since I just sealed the oil pan with RTV... I should take it off and find the tubes of Loctite 518 like you have? :)

Cuz some seeped out the sides on the outside, Im sure it did it on the inside as well... which could clog the oil passages... Das damn :(

#24 Fairtax4me

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:17 PM

That is red RTV. That is NOT Anaerobic sealant.

Permatex Anaerobic sealant comes in the blue tube that I pictured above. Pretty sure Locktite Anaerobic comes in a blue tube too.

Get Ultra Grey RTV for the Oil pan. The red stuff sucks.

#25 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:22 PM

Oil pan was done with the Ultra Grey RTV.
Think I may need to take it off though :/ I dont want the excess to clog my passages...




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