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Changing timing belts


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26 replies to this topic

#1 CrankyAl

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:23 PM

Hi Folks, I have been a lurker for many years, and have enjoyed the many helpful tips I have gleaned over the years. Now I finally have a question.
I am in the process of changing my timing belts on my 91 Loyal along with the pulleys and a new water pump (aisian).
My question....the pulley on the oil pump has lost the outside retainer ring. Do I need to replace the pulley? It looks like the ring(retainer)? might keep the back timing belt from slipping forward into the outer belt. Just wondering.
Thanks for a great forum.

#2 81EA81

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:49 PM

Im no expert but while its apart I would replace it.seeing as its not correct.
however on my 86 gl I run without timing belt covers,so I can easly watch them.
The belt on my oil pump pully rides about 2-3mm back from the front lip/ring.
Also another thing to consider is the cam pullys dont have any lips on them either.

Just my opinion

#3 CrankyAl

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:13 PM

I have been leaning toward replacement, I just wanted some opinions.
Thanks

CA

#4 scoobiedubie

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:54 PM

Oil pump is damaged, possibly due to rubbing of the gear against the plastic cover. It sounds like the cover needs some looking at as well.

#5 2Cor6.9-10

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:58 PM

I'm changing my belts as well (86 gl wagon). I'd like to hitch-hike on this thread rather than starting a new timing belt thread; I hope you don't mind. Are the two belts identical, so I could just buy 2 of the same belt (I'm finding a lot of belts online; don't know if they are the same)? When trying to select the correct belts I see these engine options for the 1.8L: a vin 4 2BBL OHV, a vin 4 TBI SOHC, a vin 5 2BBL OHV, or a vin 5 TBI SOHC. Which vin # is it referring to and how do I find out if mine is 2BBL or TBI and OHV or SOHC?

Is it standard to replace the idler sprocket and tensioners or only if they are damaged?
Is it standard to replace the timing cover gaskets/seals and cam gaskets/seals or only if leaks are found?

Any specialty tools required besides a pipe/breakerbar?

Thank you

#6 wentz912

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:07 AM

I'm changing my belts as well (86 gl wagon). I'd like to hitch-hike on this thread rather than starting a new timing belt thread; I hope you don't mind. Are the two belts identical, so I could just buy 2 of the same belt (I'm finding a lot of belts online; don't know if they are the same)? When trying to select the correct belts I see these engine options for the 1.8L: a vin 4 2BBL OHV, a vin 4 TBI SOHC, a vin 5 2BBL OHV, or a vin 5 TBI SOHC. Which vin # is it referring to and how do I find out if mine is 2BBL or TBI and OHV or SOHC?

Is it standard to replace the idler sprocket and tensioners or only if they are damaged?
Is it standard to replace the timing cover gaskets/seals and cam gaskets/seals or only if leaks are found?

Any specialty tools required besides a pipe/breakerbar?

Thank you



The VIN number is less important than you are making it. Being an 86, if the engine is still one the factory put in the car, it is most likely the carb'd EA82 aka 1.8L, SOHC, 2BBL. To break that down for you a little, the EA82 is a 1.8L displacement engine operating with Single OverHead Cams, and is fueled by a 2 Barrel Carburetor. How they get two B's in the abbreviation for barrel I dunno.

Also, the timing belts are NOT the same, as the driver's side is quite a bit longer than the passenger.

If you can swing the green for all the parts, replace everything on the front of that little motor that you can. You've got to have the covers off anyhow, you might as well take advantage of it! And while you're at it, ditch the covers as well! They are nothing but a pain in the butt that interferes with being able to check on and therefore properly maintain your vehicle.

As for tools, if I can remember correctly, last time I did mine I only used the following: 8, 10, 12, 14, 22 mm sockets, my long handled ratchet for breaking the crank pulley bolt, a colorful selection of swear words, and an Ice cold beer to reward myself when I was done.

If you care to, you can go a step further and lift the front of the car with a jack a bit and remove the engine skid plate. This helps with access to the tensioner hardware from underneath as well as the strain on your back from bending over the front of the car!

#7 scoobiedubie

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:15 AM

The belts are different length. Most people don't replace belts until they intend to replace the water pump. Replace water pump every 20,000 miles tops. Don't wait for it to detonate. Replace pulleys and idler gears every 75,000 miles, or if they don't spin easily. Replace front or rear covers if they rub against the pulley or idlers, because they are warped. Replace oil pump seals if they are leaking. Most mechanics will replace the oil pump as well. Buy idlers, belts and pulleys as a complete kit on EBAY for about $70. You can buy the water pump from an auto parts store because there are two different sizes. One for GL and one for GL-10's. Before you touch anything, you align the timing mark on the engine to the 3 ticks on the flywheel. Those ticks occur at two locations on the flywheel. When you do that, the timing holes in the camshaft geared pulleys will also align with their timing marks. One timing hole will be at the top of the pulley and one timing hole will be at the bottom of the other pulley. Take your rotor cap off and note the exact location of the rotor and camshaft geared pulley because you will have to exactly duplicate that when you reinstall the belts. Don't forget to loosen up the pulleys to get the old belts off, and retighten them after you get the new belts installed. You will have to remove the radiator fan assembly in order to access all of the front covers. All front covers come off. You will need a 22mm socket and a long socket wrench to get the front pulley off of the crankshaft. Replace front covers by placing either a neoprene or HDPE washer beneath the cover bolts so that they don't seize up next time you take them off. You will probably find seized bolts this time.

#8 2Cor6.9-10

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:22 AM

Thank you again Scoob and Wentz for excellent info. and instructions. And thank you to CrankyAl for the thread.

Edited by 2Cor6.9-10, 30 August 2012 - 10:14 AM.


#9 2Cor6.9-10

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:14 AM

For some reason the sohc is not an option listed with 2bbl. So I just went with the 2bbl ohv and assumed it would work. Since there is no need for the covers, I suppose I will not bother buying the timing cover seal/gasket set.

Thanks

#10 wentz912

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:47 PM

That's a bit odd. Can you post us a link to the kit you are looking at getting? And unless I'm stupid, I don't think there ARE any timing cover gaskets or seals per-say. On the front of the engine you have cam shaft o-rings and seals, oil pump seals, front main, and water pump. That's basically it.

Also, to expand on what scoobie said, there are two sets of marks that you see through the inspection hole as you rotate the flywheel. One is a set labeled with numbers and letters that is used for ignition timing. The other set, that you will be using, is a set of three 1/4" long ticks about 3/16" apart from each other. You'll want to align the tab on the bellhousing with the center mark out of the three, and install your first belt on the passenger side with the hole on the cam pulley straight up, aligned with the split between valve cover and cam tower, or the notch in the plastic timing cover. Then you'll turn the crank one full revolution clockwise, back to that center mark. Check that the passenger side cam pulley hole is now pointed straight down, and the drivers side is straight up using the same reference point. Button up that belt and VOILA, you're done. Miles Fox has a wicked good video on the procedure posted in the USRM on the subject also.

Edited by wentz912, 30 August 2012 - 02:54 PM.


#11 MilesFox

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:16 PM

For some reason the sohc is not an option listed with 2bbl. So I just went with the 2bbl ohv and assumed it would work. Since there is no need for the covers, I suppose I will not bother buying the timing cover seal/gasket set.

Thanks


you will have the wrong part. anything from 85-89 will overlap ea81 and ea82 cars in the parts listing.

order the ohc, or just be safe and order for a 1990 loyale.

all of the ea82 motors use the same timing belts, oil pump and front seals.

#12 PlaneDriver

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:01 PM

all of the ea82 motors use the same timing belts, oil pump and front seals.


Does that include the EA-82T? I think the pumps are different from what I have seen listed in parts lists, but how about the seals?

#13 MilesFox

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:41 PM

seals and belts are the same. turbos generally have the 105mm short shaft pump with studded pulley, n/a generally has 100mm long shaft pump with slotted pulley. This can be different based on what a/c system the car may have.

seals and belts are all the same for all ea82

either water pump works if you have the associated pulley.

you will likely go with the 110mm waterpump

Edited by MilesFox, 30 August 2012 - 08:45 PM.


#14 2Cor6.9-10

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 04:59 PM

Thanks Wentz and MilesFox.

Wentz, go to o'reilly homepage and under "add vehicle" add an 86 subaru gl and you will see the engine options.
http://www.oreillyau...site/c/home.oap

Here is the belt kit:
http://www.oreillyau...03978&ppt=C0141

Here is the timing cover gasket set:
http://www.oreillyau...C1955&ppt=C0026

#15 wentz912

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:08 PM

Personally. I really don't think you should spend any money on the timing cover gaskets. I'm a thorough believer in running completely coverless. Definitely looks like you have the right belt kit though.

#16 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:50 AM

Unless you plan to REALLY destroy your belts, run coverless.

I did my drivers timing belt when it broke in about 30 minutes explaining the process to my sister who kept asking questions.

The engine is non-interference and the belts are relatively cheap... so if you snap one with the covers off, its no big deal, but its unlikely youll snap one.

Im even running coverless on my dads 1990 Legacy (first gen EJ22 so non-interference as well)

Also with the covers off you can keep an eye on things, pinpoint any leaks and if your car starts running weird, you can check the timing first.

--- Dont know if it was mentioned, but in some of the car manuals it says to put both cam pulleys up... its actually put the first cam pulley at TDC (top dead center) put the belt on, rotate the engine a full 180* and then put the other cam pulley at TDC and you should have perfect timing. Worked on my 86 GL easily and I had to laugh when my neighbor said without a timing gun my car wouldnt start, fired right up :Flame:

#17 wentz912

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

--- Dont know if it was mentioned, but in some of the car manuals it says to put both cam pulleys up... its actually put the first cam pulley at TDC (top dead center) put the belt on, rotate the engine a full 180* and then put the other cam pulley at TDC and you should have perfect timing. Worked on my 86 GL easily and I had to laugh when my neighbor said without a timing gun my car wouldnt start, fired right up :Flame:


The statement above in bold is incorrect. You turn the engine 360*, it is the camshaft that only rotates 180*.

Stating to place the first camshaft at TDC is also misleading as well. While not quite "wrong", TDC is typically a term only used in reference to piston travel.

And since I'm on a roll here.....

Marshall, your neighbor is an idiot. You have to get the car timed to a point close enough to correct for it to run before a timing light is at all useful. So before you get all high and mighty about your "mad skillz", think about what is actually going on.

#18 scoobiedubie

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:10 AM

It is simpler than rotating the flywheel 180 degrees. While you have the camshaft pulley wheels off, you put a straight edge on them and find the exact opposite side of the pulley from the little timing hole on the face. Then you mark that point with some whiteout paint. When you are then setting the belts in the correct notches on the camshaft pulley, one pulley will have the timing hole aligned with the notch in the rear plastic cover, and the other pulley must have the whiteout mark aligned with the notch in the rear plastic cover. You might need a special wrench to twist the bolted in camshaft pulley, to the correct position. Leaving the front covers off should not be done if you like to drive through mud, as it will cause your cambelt pulleys and oil pump, to get dirt into the bearings faster.

#19 MilesFox

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:37 AM

Yes, you can do it this way, but the passenger side cam will be sprung under tension, and if it moves, it will flop over and be difficult to line up ny hand unless you can grab the whole pulley(coverless) or have the spanner tool.

#20 wentz912

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 01:54 PM

Can't believe how difficult you are trying to make this, scoobie.....:-p

With the passenger side belt attached, if you turn the crank ONE FULL REVOLUTION back to the timing belt marks, the passenger side camshaft will turn itself EXACTLY as much as it should, provided you did it correctly in the first place.

All this hooey with white marks and such is ridiculous.

#21 MilesFox

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 06:58 PM

he is probably thinking or looking at the distributor rotor turn 180 as you crank the motor 360 to do the other belt.

you can pit both belts on at once if the other cam is loaded and held in place and the rotor is on the #1 with the flywheel on the III mark

i can agree about mud on the timing belt, but unless you are taking a mudbath every day it would be no compromise.

Imagine driving through mud up the the timing belt with covers on. Will mud get inside? How long would it stay in there afterward. This would be conducive to driving in mud every single day.

#22 wentz912

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 01:09 AM

Messing with the distributor is a completely unnecessary step, and can much more easily lead to confusion.

Also, it was not mentioned previously in the thread at all in regards to changing timing belts.

#23 2Cor6.9-10

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:01 AM

I have to say, I really appreciate the detailed step by step instructions. I'm not offended by dumbing it down. When you do something a lot it is easy to overlook instructions that you do naturally. I'll try to make a "timing belts for dummies" videos with all the details included. I'm a fan of white out though those with plenty of experience probably don't need it. You guys truly help anyone to be a "do it yourself" person.

About messing with the distributor, that's for adjusting ignition timing but not cam timing, right? I'm not sure how to know if the ignition timing needs adjusting, I assume once I fix the cam timing if there is any backfire then the ignition timing needs adjusting?

Edited by 2Cor6.9-10, 08 September 2012 - 11:56 AM.


#24 ivans imports

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:07 AM

change pully or weld the ring back on gentaly this ring likes to find its way between the belt and pully with not so good results

#25 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:14 PM

... I'll try to make a "timing belts for dummies" videos with all the details included. ...


It already exist... Look at the Followin' Link:

~►


Uploaded time ago by my friend MilesFox, he has been somehow my "Teacher" with all these procedures in a series of awesome Videos, called: "The Art of Subaru Maintenance" :)



...unless you are taking a mudbath every day it would be no compromise...


Yes, I Drive my "BumbleBeast" as daily driver from Monday to Friday, and as a Family off-road machine for mountain adventures almost each Weekend, and its EA82 timin' Belts run coverless without issues.

I Believe that for the Belts is a lot easier to somehow "Clean themselves" without the Covers, otherwise, the covers could hold mud, oil and dirt inside and let them run dirty for longer times...

Kind Regards.





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