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92 Loyale SPFI (aftermarket intake questions)


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19 replies to this topic

#1 92LoyaleH4

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:17 AM

Hey all, just wanna get some opinions.

I'm looking to build an intake using spectre parts. The first obvious restriction is the MAF housing. Now spectre makes a whole new part to widen it to 3 inches. This is my concern.

As of right now i bought a MAF adapter plate to fit a big filter...Little difference, but better pickup. My aim if to just increase the get up. Plus i like the intake sound. But hey, even 5hp is something with such a low output motor.



My concerns are for one MAF problems. The second is if im gonna be running lean due to the injector not giving enough fuel...considering the computer might not be able to adjust to this upgrade.

Can i fit a bigger injector in???:brow:


Here's what i've done so far...of course after modifying the rest the adapter plate will be deleted. Thanks guys!;)


BTW: i have noticed better fuel usage...tho that was when i wasn't whoopin on it to hear that nice sound the intake produces:D
Posted Image

Edited by 92LoyaleH4, 07 October 2012 - 02:23 AM.


#2 djellum

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:27 AM

our injectors are a standard style, though i cant remember the name of them. you should be able to search it out, then pick ones that are rated higher. we share with a lot of cars, fords and nissans of various years for sure. i believe I have heard that ford thunderbirds shared with us, so you might be able to order them or get some from a junk yard and rebuild. check for sure first though.

ultimately it shouldnt matter much. turbo cars need to worry a little bit, but they were kind of maxed at the start. you wont be and your not dealing with the stresses of a turbo.

i dont think you will notice much of a difference either way, if you want to put more in the mouth, you need to clean out the rump roast. id throw money at your exhaust before the intake. you will see a better return imo.

#3 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:29 AM

No gain to be had here. Don't waste any more of your money. Intake modifications will only result in potential for ingesting water into the engine when you hit a puddle.

It's a 90 HP 1.8 - there is really nothing worthwhile to be done here.

GD

#4 maozebong

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:43 AM

im with GD. there isnt much you can do to make more power on the intake. porting the heads is not something a noob can accomplish, nor would i trust to do... but head porting is where all the gains are, and i mean ALL.


a custom free flowing 2-2.25" exhaust with a proper merge between the two pipes, and the primary cat relocated or deleted makes minimal, but more noticable gains than any intake pipe. cams come in at a close second for gains.


the whole reason the EA82 sucks so much is because of the siamesed ports... notice how the early ej's are fairly similar bottom ends... but with different heads. makes 40HP more.

get the idea?

#5 92LoyaleH4

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:19 PM

Ya, i was afraid id get this answer...If i wasn't tight on cash i woulda had the heads ported when i redid the motor (all seals, HG's)

Now granted its not that much work to take em back off...but alas, is it really worth the trouble?...probably not. Next time the motor comes out im going for a swap. I was bummed to learn there wasn't much to soup one of these motors up.

I absolutly love my loyale...if it was 4wd i'd have more fun...but i gotta go with power and from this and everything i've read a swap is the only mod to do so.





im with GD. there isnt much you can do to make more power on the intake. porting the heads is not something a noob can accomplish, nor would i trust to do... but head porting is where all the gains are, and i mean ALL.


a custom free flowing 2-2.25" exhaust with a proper merge between the two pipes, and the primary cat relocated or deleted makes minimal, but more noticable gains than any intake pipe. cams come in at a close second for gains.


the whole reason the EA82 sucks so much is because of the siamesed ports... notice how the early ej's are fairly similar bottom ends... but with different heads. makes 40HP more.

get the idea?



#6 92LoyaleH4

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:20 PM

Thanks for the info i will be checking out injectors to see about any ideas!:popcorn:

our injectors are a standard style, though i cant remember the name of them. you should be able to search it out, then pick ones that are rated higher. we share with a lot of cars, fords and nissans of various years for sure. i believe I have heard that ford thunderbirds shared with us, so you might be able to order them or get some from a junk yard and rebuild. check for sure first though.

ultimately it shouldnt matter much. turbo cars need to worry a little bit, but they were kind of maxed at the start. you wont be and your not dealing with the stresses of a turbo.

i dont think you will notice much of a difference either way, if you want to put more in the mouth, you need to clean out the rump roast. id throw money at your exhaust before the intake. you will see a better return imo.



#7 Quidam

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:02 PM

Injector options info would be good. Mabie more fuel pressure?

92 Loyale 3AT, I did this. Put in premiuem fuel on the second tank I bumped the timing up at the distributor...I didn't check this with a light, but it aparantly adds to the total advance. Anyway, no matter where you set it, it still cranks over and starts with a lower advance.

I got it running clean, all stock. I can wind it out in first gear untill 7400-7500 where It gets a violent fuel/ignition? cut. But it runs clean up to there. 6900-7000 in second gets me down the road pretty good, if I want to go there.

I like a pump gas regular car for a driver so next tank will be regular with a detune. I can't do the above without good fuel tho.

Doug

#8 92LoyaleH4

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:38 PM

That was my idea...kinda like a carb where you gotta go up jets when you do modifications...

I did change it back to stock because for one it was surging after 4k at WOT and just had no power at all. Still would climb rpm's but no power...

This honestly made me realize the car is good like it is. i cleaned the MAF and cleaned the EGR out. Runs a lot better.:-p Time for a better radio!

Thanks to all who commented!!!;)


Injector options info would be good. Mabie more fuel pressure?

92 Loyale 3AT, I did this. Put in premiuem fuel on the second tank I bumped the timing up at the distributor...I didn't check this with a light, but it aparantly adds to the total advance. Anyway, no matter where you set it, it still cranks over and starts with a lower advance.


Doug



#9 Quidam

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:36 PM

On the intake...If you hook up a vacuum gauge to manifold vac and poke it through the hood opening in front of the drivers seat, so you can see it, this will tell you something.

If you see anything but 0 on the gauge at WOT you have a restriction.

My list for more SPFI power.

Cut the header right after the cat with the hole large enough to insert a 2' ID pipe. Gut the cat for off road. If you've seen the original pipe without the heat shields in place, well, it's a pretty small, mangled and crushed piece. Yea, so at least true 2" ID from there to the rear bumper.

XT cams or delta stage one, or Delta stage two preferably.

More compression will always make more power. Genuine Subaru head gaskets are on the order of .009 to .010 thinner than Fel Pro. A cold retorque on Genuine Subaru will reduce the thickness by .003. To about .060" thick.

Deck the block .016 giving you about .044 quench which is a very good number. Helps reduce detonation with reduced quench. This is probably a premium fuel motor at this point just like a Frankenmotor or Turbo. If you want to play, you've got to pay.

The point of this is to make use of the rpm range the EA 82 is capable of.

More fuel pressure and injector. Would the factory CPU freak out at this point?

Doug

#10 92LoyaleH4

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:53 PM

Lots of interesting info there! I indeed did use FELPRO HG's...and of course that was before i realized it's best to just use OEM subaru parts...Granted felpro makes a very good product!

Honestly I can't see putting any money into the EA82 performance wise...Its perfect for what it is and meant to be. Plus its keeps me on the right side of not losing my license!:-p Now if the motor ever did blow i'd be doing a full engine tranny swap! Than it'll turn into a sleeper!

On the intake...If you hook up a vacuum gauge to manifold vac and poke it through the hood opening in front of the drivers seat, so you can see it, this will tell you something.

If you see anything but 0 on the gauge at WOT you have a restriction.

My list for more SPFI power.

Cut the header right after the cat with the hole large enough to insert a 2' ID pipe. Gut the cat for off road. If you've seen the original pipe without the heat shields in place, well, it's a pretty small, mangled and crushed piece. Yea, so at least true 2" ID from there to the rear bumper.

XT cams or delta stage one, or Delta stage two preferably.

More compression will always make more power. Genuine Subaru head gaskets are on the order of .009 to .010 thinner than Fel Pro. A cold retorque on Genuine Subaru will reduce the thickness by .003. To about .060" thick.

Deck the block .016 giving you about .044 quench which is a very good number. Helps reduce detonation with reduced quench. This is probably a premium fuel motor at this point just like a Frankenmotor or Turbo. If you want to play, you've got to pay.

The point of this is to make use of the rpm range the EA 82 is capable of.

More fuel pressure and injector. Would the factory CPU freak out at this point?

Doug



#11 l75eya

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 05:10 PM

Off topic question; sorry

Is there any advantage/disadvantage to just completely cutting out the cat, as opposed to gutting it? If you're going to gut it, why bother? Just delete it.

School me. :Flame:

#12 djellum

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 05:51 PM

vehicle inspections will check for them. even on cars that dont have to emision, you can still fail a vehicle inspection for no cat. Many cars can pass the actual emmision test without one, but if they look under your car you will fail automatically.

for the most part I think its cost. ramming a broom handle through what you have is cheaper and easier than crafting a new piece.

#13 Crazyeights

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:43 PM

EA horsepower that is easy and almost free! If you have a fairly fresh engine fill it with Premium unleaded and run the ignition timing from 20 degrees stock up to 24 degrees. It's really easy and it helps wake up an EA82 a little bit. If you keep your foot out of it the increase in mileage will almost offset the difference in price for the premium fuel. Of course all the other listed mods will help too.

#14 l75eya

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:58 PM

vehicle inspections will check for them. even on cars that dont have to emision, you can still fail a vehicle inspection for no cat. Many cars can pass the actual emmision test without one, but if they look under your car you will fail automatically.

for the most part I think its cost. ramming a broom handle through what you have is cheaper and easier than crafting a new piece.


That's what I figured, just the inspection thing. But despite that, it accomplishes roughly the same thing I take it? Reason being, I'm cutting my cat out next week. :headbang:

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:46 AM

There is no performance benefit to removing or gutting the cat on an otherwise stock motor. This kind of fairy tale wishful thinking is not going to accomplish anything but pollute the environment needlessly.

GD

#16 l75eya

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:10 PM

There is no performance benefit to removing or gutting the cat on an otherwise stock motor. This kind of fairy tale wishful thinking is not going to accomplish anything but pollute the environment needlessly.

GD


That's another thing that I had considered, more air out the back doesn't mean anything without more air coming in. Now would you say that a gutted/removed cat along with a weber 38 on the intake would be worthwhile? As those are my future plans..

#17 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:48 PM

The 38 DGAS is much too large for the EA82.

And no - you can't get enough air through stock heads to warrant gutting a stock cat. The cat is not a significant restriction. Waste of time.

GD

#18 92LoyaleH4

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:35 AM

This about sums it up...I mean after i put the stock intake back on i noticed an improvement...While not a performance motor by any means i think subaru put everything in place very well. I just still wish i had a 5 speed:cool:

The 38 DGAS is much too large for the EA82.

And no - you can't get enough air through stock heads to warrant gutting a stock cat. The cat is not a significant restriction. Waste of time.

GD



#19 Quidam

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:02 AM

This about sums it up...I mean after i put the stock intake back on i noticed an improvement...While not a performance motor by any means i think subaru put everything in place very well. I just still wish i had a 5 speed:cool:


Just something I did. EA 82 with optical distributor. I taped a vac gauge to the windshield. Tests inconclusive because after I parked the car I realized the gauge wasn't zeroing like it should. I'll have a new vac gauge this week.

I'll verify but here's what I found. I'm on the third tank of 93-94 octane fuel. I found a sweet spot with the distributor position where the engine will show a steady 21.5" of vac. I rev it and it peaks at 25" when I close the throttle like it should. I'm at about 300-900' elevation above sea level mostly.

I haven't used a timing light yet. My disty is set like this...If you advance your disty all the way, then pull it back a wee bit...that's my sweet spot. I first just advanced it all the way and tried it. Got a bit of ping under heavy load, and the motor ran a little warmer. Still didn't get over half way on the gauge though.

But moving on with the question of whether or not the intake or exhaust is restrictive, on this car it may be. Best number I can estimate is that the vacuum never drops below 2". I took the stock air filter out but there was no change.

No restriction that gauge will drop to 0. This Loyale has noticable torque and hp increases and I'm just going to run 94 Sunoco.

I need to get the dial back timing light out and get some numbers. Oh, no EGR or AC, 3AT 4WD.

I got third gear front tire chirp when it shifted while over rough black top. I had a small grin on my face:)

Doug

Edited by Quidam, 13 November 2012 - 09:23 AM.


#20 Quidam

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:48 AM

Some update thoughts. I've got it to 0 the gauge but only in the range of 2 to 4,000 rpm, under certain circumstances. Going up hill lite on the throttle.

I can turn it 7500 rpm in first gear down hill then the tachometer swings left and I think that means the ignition signal is cut...?

My exhaust is restrictive, for sure.

The way the 3AT is set up at WOT, just let it shift, it shifts at 5200 because that's where peak HP is. Mine recovers to a nominal 3,400. Slightly above peak torque.

I'll need to stop this experiment on this car. It has all new factory style bolt together exhaust. Daily driver I'll leave as is. My best factory front pipe, AP exhaust midpipe with resonator. Walker Quiet Flow muffler.

Yea, that muffler bugs me the most, but I like quiet DD.

Doug




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