hilux_1990 Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 I've finally finished putting this 1986 EA-82 together and hooking everything up in my 1991 wagon. This particular engine has around ~100,000 miles on it and was sitting in a guys workshop for like 3 years. About the only problems I had were due to differences in emission control hoses, distributor wiring and... the most annoying I guess, the realisation that the '86 version has a manual choke (Hitachi carb). Everything is re-connected, except for the exhaust Y-pipe, air-con wiring, the 2nd elec. fan and the air filter box. This means the carby bowl vent is not currently connected to the canister (if that's critical). Every part on this engine was replaced, except for the piston rings and head gaskets. All other seals/O-rings were replaced and I cleaned out the HLA's. I haven't really checked anything on the carby. I'm getting a spark when I connect a plug directly to the coil and there's definately fuel *takes a big whiff* The tank was half full so I filled it up with high-octane premium unleaded. The starter motor turns the engine OK, and I've been trying to jump start it just to make sure I've got plenty of voltage. Having just realised I will need to get a manual choke cable, I have connected a piece of wire to the choke lever near the top of the carby which is holding the choke flap most of the way closed. I also tried starting the engine with the choke flap completely open. I have tried to start it with no throttle, along with the throttle flat to the floor, with no luck. I can hear a couple of splutters and with no exhaust it sounds a bit like a lawn mower. It cranks for a while, couple of splutters, then I shut it off so I don't kill the starter. Any suggestions on how to bring her back to life? preferably without putting my life in the hands of a squirt of starter fluid Thanks, David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 pour gas down the throat to see if it will start, if it does, you timing is ok, and your carb needs attention. if it dont start with gas, or starting fluid, its most likely timing. thats about all it can be, as long as you arent using an optical disty with a carb setup(is that right),from an spfi, or newer mpfi. your going from efi to carb right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 just noticed australia, you guys had carbs all the way up to 94 right? i was thinking your 91 was a efi at heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Sounds to me that the timing is off. Check the timing belts to see if they were installed correctly. If they are correct, bring #1 to top dead center (timing mark on flywheel) and remove the distributor cap, look to where the rotor is pointing. Is it pointing toward the top steering column u-joint? If not, it is not timed correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux_1990 Posted April 2, 2004 Author Share Posted April 2, 2004 Thanks for your reply archemitis. I dismantled the carby to give it a good clean. It has a reluctor with an electronic pickup/ignition module. I'm going from 1991 EA-82 carby to an '86 EA-82 carb. The ignition wiring was basically the same - ignition module inside dizzy that triggers the coil - but they just had different connectors on the wires. A spark test checks out okay. Exactly how much fuel do you suggest pouring down the throat? normally when I stomp on the pedal too much it floods the thing so I just do a foot-to-the-floor start anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux_1990 Posted April 2, 2004 Author Share Posted April 2, 2004 Normal-roof DL/GL wagons here all seem to be carbed up to 1994. I *think* all the high-roof Touring Wagons were fuel injected of some variety. The high-roof model finished ~sadly~ in 1989 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux_1990 Posted April 2, 2004 Author Share Posted April 2, 2004 Thanks Dr RX. I'll run through my belt procedure... Aligned center of 3 valve timing marks on flywheel. Aligned engine-left-side cam sprocket to top notch. Installed belt, no slack at top, released tensioner, tensioned sprocket, tightened tensioner. Rotated crankshaft 1 turn until valve timing marks aligned again. Aligned engine-right-side cam sprocket to top notch. Installed belt, no slack at top released tensioner, tensioned sprocket, tightened tensioner. I'm pretty sure I got it spot on... When I released the tensioner it took up the slack in the belt. I then applied x amount of torque to the cam sprocket in an anti-clockwise direction. Due to the tension being applied to each belt, I noticed the notch on each sprocket moved a few mm's away from its alignment mark at the top. I figured this was because of the free-play in the camshaft that allowed me to rotate it by hand a few degress either side of this top center alignment mark. Sorry if I'm blabbing on but I'm interested to know if this has been other people's experience? Lastly, it is even possible I plugged the spark plug wires in wrong. The alignment of the dizzy cap on this '86 engine was different and, while I did draw a diagram, I then managed to lose it! Would anyone be able to tell me the correct ordering for an '86 Hitachi dizzy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 timing timing timing... its so critical, so easy to screw up and so hard to get perfect sounds like you got the timing belts on right. was the dizzy ever removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Remember where I told you the rotor should be, pointing to the u-joint on the steering, well that would be #1. I believe the rotor rotates counter clockwise. I wish I could remember the firing order, I think it is 1-4-2-3, if so, the next spot on the cap (the one nearest the engine) would be #4, the next one near tyhe battery would be #2, and the last one near the strut tower would be #3. The pistons are #2 and #4 on the driver side and #1 and #3 on the passenger side. Everytime I replace the belts on my 86 or 85, I use the method of poiting the rotor at the u-joint on the steering and the engine fires right up, with only minimal adjustment needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Remember where I told you the rotor should be, pointing to the u-joint on the steering, well that would be #1. I believe the rotor rotates counter clockwise. I wish I could remember the firing order, I think it is 1-4-2-3, if so, the next spot on the cap (the one nearest the engine) would be #4, the next one near tyhe battery would be #2, and the last one near the strut tower would be #3. The pistons are #2 and #4 on the driver side and #1 and #3 on the passenger side. Everytime I replace the belts on my 86 or 85, I use the method of poiting the rotor at the u-joint on the steering and the engine fires right up, with only minimal adjustment needed. Fire order is 1-3-2-4. It fires the right head then the left head. Cylinders are marked with a number embosed directly on top of the cylidner on the block. Kinda hard to see but they are there. You bring up good points Dr. RX. Check that dizzy rotor postion and check your wire routing. Also if the dizzy has been pulled you might be a tooth or 2 off. Its a real bugger getting it on the right tooth becuase the gear teath are taiperd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Rotor turns counterclockwise, also. $5 says it's ignition timing/spark plug wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorManzImpreza Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 umm isn't his car RHD? So his steering U-joint isn't next to his dizzy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux_1990 Posted April 3, 2004 Author Share Posted April 3, 2004 PoorMan is correct, my vehicle's right hand drive. I didn't actually remove the dizzy but I had the cam carrier removed and had been happily spinning the camshaft... forgot about that I hooked up a compression gauge to #1 cylinder and kept rotating the engine by hand until the needle moved. The pointer was about 2 inches past the ignition timing marks now and I then rotated the crankshaft once more until the pointer was aligned at zero. I then replaced the dizzy so the rotor was pointing to my mark for the #1 wire. My wires are hooked up okay... #1 is pointing towards the firewall, and it's then 1-3-2-4 going around anti-clockwise. Once again I tried jump starting it just in case I didn't have enough battery juice. I tried it with the choke flap open, and also most of the way closed. When I try to start it there's just the usual cranking noise... ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh... with no luck. Depending on how much throttle I give it, the carby sounds like a steam train! pfft, pfft, pfft! shooting puffs of smoke straight up, and the odd puff out at an angle. While I didn't actually pour any fuel directly down the throat, I tried using the throttle to squirt in lots of fuel (ie. up to 20 squirts) and that resulted in my little steam train firing a few small bursts of flame out the throat I managed to make myself laugh at this little steamer but any further suggestions on how to get her to fire up would be appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 If it is puffing back through the carb, then the cam timing is definately off. I would re-check that to make sure that it is correct. The first cam to be set is the left side (as sitting in the driver's seat looking forward) I believe, that will set the distributor. When I set the cams, I set both at the same time. With the left timing mark pointing straight up, the right side cam's timing mark should be pointing straight down. Sorry that I missed that you were from Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyruss Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 puffing out the carb would tell me that its too far advanced. if you have been dumping lots of fuel down it by whatever means it may be flooded as well. pull your plugs and clean them off good. I vote for a misaligned disty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux_1990 Posted April 3, 2004 Author Share Posted April 3, 2004 Is there anyway to check the cam timing without removing the alternator, compressor, drive belts, front covers....? I might clean the plugs. #1 was already looking nice and sooty. Can I use a timing gun while trying to crank the engine? I found TDC for #1 (I think I got it right) then aligned the rotor so I thought I could get the timing exactly right later on. As mentioned, this engine supposedly hasn't been used in 3 years... looking down the throat of the carb it looks ok, but do things get gummed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 Something you said got me thinking, you aren't pointing the rotor straight back to the firewall are you??? If you are, that might be your problem. As you are facing the firewall, the rotor should be pointed at a 35 to 40 degree angle to the left of pointing straight at the firewall. No, I don't know of any easy way to check the cam timing other then take everything back off. That is why I alway test start the engines I work on before I put all that stuff back on, including the radiator. If it starts, I shut it down immediately, then finish putting everything back on, if it doesn't, that I have less stuff to get out of the way to trouble shot the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux_1990 Posted April 3, 2004 Author Share Posted April 3, 2004 I marked where the #1 plug wire is on the outside of the dizzy body, then aligned the rotor to that. For this '86 engine with a Hitachi dizzy, #1 on the dizzy cap is pretty much straight towards the firewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 On my 86 EA82T it is not, it is as I told you. What good would a mark on the distributor do it the distributor is not on the correct tooth. Why don't you try what I suggest and see if it works. It has for every EA82 that I have tuned, 86 or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subynut Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 I agree with Corky. Cams sound like they're correct, but puffs shootin out the carby says the ditsy is firein' at the wrong time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux_1990 Posted April 5, 2004 Author Share Posted April 5, 2004 Well, finally some good news... she fired right up! I removed all the accessories and checked the timing belts. One up, one down, all good. As mentioned in an earlier post, I wasn't happy with the procedure I had followed for finding TDC on the #1 cylinder. I thought "what the heck" and took note of where the rotor was pointing, pulled the dizzy and re-orientated it so that the rotor was pointing 180degrees to where it was before. I turned the key to ignition and wired up a hot-switch to the starter motor to make things a bit easier. Now the engine sounded more like things were combusting at the right time and the exhaust was coming out where it was supposed too, the bottom. I aligned the flywheel to zero and taking the Doctor's advice I re-orientated the dizzy anti-clockwise (about 2 teeth) so that the rotor was pointing about 40degrees left from straight at the firewall. Once again it sounded like it was barely firing. I then re-orientated the dizzy ~back~ clockwise 1 tooth. Barely a click of the starter and she roars into life like the best sounding lawn mower on the street! Just to double-check, I aligned the flywheel to zero again and the dizzy rotor is pointing about 10degrees left from being straight towards the firewall. The reason I was being so specific of this '86 model, Hitachi dizzy was that the cap on the old 1991 engine clipped onto the dizzy body at a much different orientation, meaning the body/rotor would have to be orientated at a different angle to make it fire at the correct time. I haven't adjusted the timing correctly yet but given that it starts I'm almost there. Big thanks to everyone for their help, particularly the good Doctor RX. Best advice of this thread I think would have to be testing the engine before you put the drive belts back on. While my timing belts were fine, it's the best general advice I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Glad to hear that it is running. Thanks for the kind words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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