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lubro moly mos2 for gears in Legacy L


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18 replies to this topic

#1 bluedotsnow

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:37 PM

I'd like to use mos2 for gears in my girlfriends 5mt legacy and my 4eat legacy where applicable for diffs and her trans. the product states not for self locking diffs, I don't believe we have any L.S.D.s. is a molybdenum based product safe for a 5mt viscous coupling? is this safe for regular or non LSD Subaru diffs?


Thanks!

#2 hohieu

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:40 PM

It's fine for standard differentials, but I wouldn't use it in the MT. Too much moly does not allow for the synchros to do their job. The thing about increased mos2 and other solid lubricants is that they don't provide you with better protection but rather longer protection.

This product is very popular among bmw motorcyclists, who use in their final drives ( which are problematic in their own right), but it's completely unnecessary for your particular applications. It's more important to check and replace the fluids periodically.

Edited by hohieu, 03 November 2012 - 06:46 AM.
typo


#3 Fairtax4me

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 02:28 AM

Do not use moly lubricants in a manual transmission. You will have synchro problems. It can be used in a VLSD rear diff. The viscous unit is sealed and uses its own silicone based fluid that is not mixed with the gear oil.

#4 bluedotsnow

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 03:29 AM

as I understand it its ok for both rear diffs, it would be safe for my 4eat front diff. please correct if the above is wrong.

would literally a few drops and no more be ok in a 5mt? I understand that if to much moly film build up on the synchros it prevents them from matching rpm but if I'm using 3 small drops mixed evenly with an entire trans fluid change would it be ok? I'm not trying to find a way to use this stuff just trying to get a solid understanding of moly products in MT's and their effect on synchros.


many thanks!

#5 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:54 AM

Three drops in four quarts.... How do suppose that's going to accomplish anything? Waste of time at that dilution level.

You want good shifting you get yourself the Subaru extra-s. Though I've had good luck with the Motul that has Moly in it - but I have no idea at how much it has in it. If you want Moly in the gear oil I say go with the Motul as they have already done the blending properly.

GD

#6 bluedotsnow

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:25 PM

I contacted the Motul and at first they just told me " our product is not for L.S.D."... and thats it then they refereed me to the dealership for my "application" NO HELP!!!! when I have called altrom who make lubro moly to ask questions they hop on all data or whatever and actualy look info up and give me an informed answer!

I picked up a container of supertech lithium moly grease and am wondering if I can use this product in a similar fashion as the altrom mos2 for gears.

http://www.walmart.c...-14-oz/16928003

#7 Fairtax4me

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:07 AM

That's chassis grease. Use it for lubricating ball joints and tie rod ends and U joints and such. Not for transmissions.

You can't use some gear oils (such as ones that contain molybdenum) in clutch type limited slip differentials because they alter the friction characteristics of the clutch plates. Molybdenum embeds in the clutch plates and friction discs and causes them to slip easily, making them basically useless.
It does the same with synchronizers in a transmission, making them slip easily, which is not what they are designed to do. Synchros work by applying friction to the gear hub when engaged. The friction causes the freewheeling gear to match speed with the shaft it rotates on. Without this friction the synchros do not work, and you grind the teeth on the gear hub when trying to shift.

The VLSD in a Subaru doesn't care what's in the gear oil. The viscous unit is sealed and filled with it's own special silicone fluid that does not mix with the gear oil used to lubricate the ring gear, pinion gear, and bearings in the differential housing.

#8 bluedotsnow

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:00 AM

I'm WAY over using this or any moly product in an MT. I should have been more specific about the moly/lithium grease, could I use a small amount of this in a differential specifically rear diff or my front diff on a 4eat. I'm guessing this is much less concentrated mos2 than the altrom stuff.

is it possible to mix a grease like this with regular 80w90 gear oil? obviously in small amounts. to only be used in differentials not transmission.


I'm 99% sure I'm going to wait until I get the altrom mos2 for gears... but my girls car needs a diff change front is very low.... most likely going to change both diffs tomorrow with regular gear oil no additives.

I'm also wondering if in a bad situation one could use just the grease in a rear diff say if the case were cracked or seal was leaking.... worst case scenario...


Thanks all!

#9 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

Subaru diffs hardly ever fail and almost no one even changes the gear oil in them. I have seen exactly one front diff failure on a 4EAT at about 140k and it was the pinion support bearing that went out. Outside of this one isolated incident and a few EA 4/5 speeds with a front diff that was fragged due to abuse or lack of oil there is just no evidence to suggest this is a problem area and needs additives or a great deal of thought/worry.

You are seriously over-thinking the situation. Fill with a quality 75w90 and be done with it. No need for moly or anything else.

GD

#10 Fairtax4me

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:31 PM

Lithium grease is chassis grease. It's not for differentials or any other oil lubricated parts. It will not offer any added protection, as a matter of fact it may degrade the fluid if added to gear oil.

The cheapest cheap off the shelf 80w-90 gear oil works just find in Subaru Diffs. If you want to spend some extra money for 75w-90 it won't hurt, but don't add anything to it.
Go get a grease gun, and save the grease for when you need to service ball joints and such.

#11 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:02 PM

Lithium grease is chassis grease. It's not for differentials or any other oil lubricated parts. It will not offer any added protection, as a matter of fact it may degrade the fluid if added to gear oil...


Very kindly, let me tell you that what you wrote, is True only if you use the Molybdenum Disulphide (MoS2) as an Additive to any Oil, but it is Not True if you use the only Patented formula that Liquifies the Molybdenum Disulphide, and instead of being an additive, it is Part of the Original Oil Formulation.

The European Brands: LiquiMoly / Motul \ LubroMoly are the Only ones -as far as I know- which uses that patented Formula, So those are the Originals.

See:
~► http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Liqui_Moly

I've used European oils with Molybdenum Disulphide added to their formulation for more than fifteen years with Great, awesome results, every and each time.

Those european brands are sold together by the same importer and has great precense in our Market for many years, those are Widely known here and has a Strong good Reputation between Mechanics; also Motul is the Subaru's Chosen Brand on Rallys... they Know why.




Three drops in four quarts.... How do suppose that's going to accomplish anything? Waste of time at that dilution level. ...


I Agree.

As I wrote, the Molybdenum Disulphide will not work properly when is Used as an Additive, unless it is that original formula, intended for Motor Oils.




... You want good shifting you get yourself the Subaru extra-s. Though I've had good luck with the Motul that has Moly in it - but I have no idea at how much it has in it. If you want Moly in the gear oil I say go with the Motul as they have already done the blending properly.

GD



Again, I Agree, absolutely.


I've used Motul Gearbox / diff oil with MoS2 (Molybdenum Disulphide) Since many years ago, Always with Great Results; believe me: it REALLY Smoothes any Manual Gearbox I've poured it in (and I've used it in many, many cars, from friends' to my family cars, and someone else's cars I've serviced) so beside the extended life for a Gearbox / diff, it also makes it Smoother, I mean Softer shiftings and reduced noise & heat.


This is the Gearbox / Differential Oil I've used on my "BumbleBeast" Subaru:


Posted Image


Different Formulations of MoS2:


Posted Image


MoS2 is Way Better than PTFE (Teflon) Additives such like Slick 50.


Posted Image


Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 08 November 2012 - 08:11 PM.
To add the Web Link.


#12 bluedotsnow

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

thanks loyal great info! I'm definitely going to get some for our next servicing both my girlfiriend and I will be over 300k at that point.

I have not seen the liquimoly grease before is this ball joint grease or can it be used in a differential? is this similar to the liquimoly for gears? that's the only product I have been able to find locally.

I have some of the mos2 for engines have you ever used it in a differential?

where do you get yours? do you know of a good inline retailer?

Thanks again!

#13 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

thanks loyal great info! ...


You're Welcome!



... I'm definitely going to get some for our next servicing both my girlfiriend and I will be over 300k at that point. ...


Good Idea!



... I have not seen the liquimoly grease before ...


Well, that grease is designed for outstanding performance under heat & pressure conditions, here in my country is Widely used for Constant Velocity Joints, its known to made them last very much longer; I've used it on my Subaru "BumbleBeast" for years, in its Axles and its wheel bearings all around, with great results; also on many other cars' axles, always with great results.



... is this ball joint grease or can it be used in a differential? is this similar to the liquimoly for gears? that's the only product I have been able to find locally. ...


No, that Grease is not the same product Liquimoly for Gears.




... I have some of the mos2 for engines have you ever used it in a differential? ...


I've used it in Engines; recently I poured LubroMoly's engine treatment onto my Wife's "KiaStein" T8D engine and is Hard to tell you how much it has improved -or not- things inside that engine, but I've noticed a Smoother operation, Faster cold starts and a little gain in fuel consumption; also, since that engine does not have Thermostat, it takes Longer to reach its normal operating temperature since I poured that; so far...

Also my Subaru "BumbleBeast" gearbox & Differential run with the above posted Motul 80W~90 oil with MoS2 added to its formula, since many years ago, it helps an old gearbox to work smooth.




...where do you get yours? do you know of a good inline retailer? ...


There those european LiquiMoly / Motul \ LubroMoly products are sold here almost everywhere, at every autoparts store, also the Local NAPA sold them; they are the usual sponsors for the many local AutoShows, as you can see, ~► Here.

But I don't know where those products are Sold or distribuited in the USA, I kindly suggest to ask to GD where he obtained his Mutul Gearbox oil with MoS2...

Also they're available online: http://www.amazon.co...words=liquimoly

Kind Regards.


#14 Fairtax4me

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:46 PM

Going off-topic for a second. Doing some digging about what Molybdenum disulfide is, found this article from MIT News: http://web.mit.edu/n...rials-0823.html
Appears MoS2 could also be the future of electronics.

Anyway, just trying to understand exactly how this stuff works with the synchros. Molybdenum has long been used as a friction reducer, and is inherently bad for synchronizers because of its ability to fill the small voids which cause friction between two surfaces.
MoS2 appears to have very good pressure and anti-wear qualities while still allowing enough friction for synchros to work. Not just that but it apparently somewhat increases friction in certain circumstances, such as between sections of synchronizers. This is what I can gather from the few articles I can find that actually reference it's friction qualities in Gear oils, rather than motor oil, and that aren't just speculation. It would be nice to find an article on exactly how it works when used in transmissions, what exactly about it allows it to prevent wear/ friction, but still allow synchros to work. I'll keep digging.

#15 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:20 AM

Good Job! ... Let's continue with the Research. Posted Image

Kind Regards.


#16 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:05 PM

There is simply no need for an MoS2 lubricant in Subaru transmissions or diffs. The diffs rarely fail and the Subaru Extra-S gear oil is hands down the best gear oil for a Subaru manual transmission that money can buy.

I ask: "What problem are you trying to solve with MoS2?"

If it's not broke - and more importantly if there's no evidence that it may break in the future nor any volume of reports of failure then this whole conversation is a total waste of time and effort. Buy Extra-S. Move on with life.

GD

#17 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:10 PM

Dear GD, very respectfully let me write, about this:

... I ask: "What problem are you trying to solve with MoS2?" ...



In my case there was No problem at all on my Subie's 5MT, but the Shifting was Hard (It became Harder with time, even using the best 80W~90 APi GL-5 Gearbox oil as suggested) so I choosed that 80W~90 Special formula oil with Liquid MoS2 (Molybdenum Disulphide) not for "Fix" a Problem, but to "Improve" things...

And that oil did the Job very well: the Manual transmission became Smoother to shift and as side effect, the M0S2 will extend its lifespan ... :D ...

So, if there were a "Problem" that needed to be Fixed, I would remove the Transmission from the Car to do a Real Fix, but no; it was not a problem, just a desire to improve things while make 'em last longer.

Kind Regards.


#18 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

I understand the use of the Motul for a performance built 5MT or to try and fix syncro grinding - especially since the Subaru Extra-S is probably hard to get in South America.

But here in the states it's not.... if you haven't tried the Extra-S then you really don't know what you are missing with respect to shifting and syncros, etc. When compared with even the synthetic gear oils that meet the Subaru requirements the Extra-S is much, much thinner acting in a pour test. It has the same benefits as the Motul but has the benefit of being officially sanctioned by Subaru and is EASIER to get than the Motul is here in the states.

I've used the Motul with the MoS2 in it and it's great stuff. But it's very expensive here in the US and hard to get.

GD

#19 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:40 PM

I Agree GD, you're Right.

The Subaru Extra-S is an outstanding oil, way better than almost the rest available for Manual Transmissions on the Market... and is so Sad that the Local Subaru dealer does not bring it here, to my Country, and it should be a Similar story in the rest of Latin America: Impossible to Obtain Locally... While Motul is almost everywhere.

The Explanation
(a li'l off-topic but just to share extra background info) is that the Central-American republics' commonwealth has a Free trade (Non-Tax) Agreement with Europe, the USA, Canada and Mexico; so our products does not get Taxed in those countries while their products aren't taxed in our market; so you'll see Plenty of products made in those countries, at very competitive prices in our local market... maybe that is the Reason those European Oils are so widely used here...

In Example, a Gallon of Motul 2000 Series 20W~50 "Made in France" Gasoline motor oil, cost Less than an equivalent Castrol "Made in USA" oil.

Please forgive me for my long explanations...

Kind Regards.





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