Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Now I'm 'getting the shaft'...


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:46 PM

How strong are the transmission axle mounts on newer generation Subarus?

Already there is significant free play on new CV joints installed that were recently installed.

Granted they are probably cheap aftermarket joints...but if the transmission splines are worn wouldn't *any* new axles be doomed to an early failure?


--Damien

#2 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,978 posts
  • Texas

Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:54 PM

How strong are the transmission axle mounts on newer generation Subarus?

Already there is significant free play on new CV joints installed that were recently installed.

Granted they are probably cheap aftermarket joints...but if the transmission splines are worn wouldn't *any* new axles be doomed to an early failure?


--Damien


seems like severe movement by the stubs would cause gear oil to leak out past the seals.

do you have leakage or noise or vibration?

#3 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:15 PM

no, there's no leakage...but I'm worried that maybe the transmission-end splines have been worn to the point that there would be no snug enough fit for any new axle... :-(

I inspected that outer race on another Subaru we have and it was pretty snugly in place and it has probably thousands of miles on it (tho there was a small amount of free-play)....


On the other hand, maybe the steel in the outer-race 'cup' is too soft....

#4 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,978 posts
  • Texas

Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:24 PM

because aftermarket rebuilts are just ground to a smooth surface with oversized ball-bearings installed, any case hardening is removed. But they should last quite some time before severe wear would be noticeable. I admit, there's probably no way to determine when freeplay would be detectable.

EMPI and other axle makers are actually new - so the surfaces should be properly hardened. I have used 2 of them so far and have no complaints but I admit they are still fairly new-ish.

Raxles.com and of course Subaru OEM would be other sources for new units.

I can't remember what car you have but, you could pull the stubs with the axle and see how much they wobble in the cup. Then, push the pin out, re-insert just the stub, see how much play there is in the transmission.

I know many people complain about the lack of quality with 'typical' rebuilt axles.

#5 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 9,040 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:28 PM

The stub splines don't typically wear. The fit is very loose on the stubs so the axles can easily be removed without damaging the snap rings that hold the stubs in the differential. There is also clearance between the stub and differential carrier for oil to lubricate the stub bearing surface. A fair amount of play is quite normal, and does no harm to the axles or differential.

I think you may just be a bit paranoid. If the axle isn't clicking or wobbling while driving, sit back and enjoy the ride while it lasts. :)

#6 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:26 PM

Figures there'd be a poor design there...can't have it all, anyway. :-(

Just a lousy pin and stubby splines to drive all that.

#7 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:12 PM

paranoid? maybe...but I bet it's the quality of steel in those joints anyway.

#8 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,058 posts
  • WV

Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:13 PM

those splined stubby shafts are not failure points...even quarter century year old 80's Subarus aren't failing and all of them have the same original shafts in them.

i'm not sure what problem you're tracking but, unless there's something really strange about your car, the splined stub shafts are not your issue.

#9 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 9,040 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:06 AM

Figures there'd be a poor design there...can't have it all, anyway. :-(

Just a lousy pin and stubby splines to drive all that.


I quite like the poor design. It makes axle service easy, no risk of damage to seals during removal or installation, no need to drain gear oil.
The pins are just there to keep the cv joint from slipping off, they don't handle any substantial load during driving.

#10 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,978 posts
  • Texas

Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:21 AM

I quite like the poor design. It makes axle service easy, no risk of damage to seals during removal or installation, no need to drain gear oil.
The pins are just there to keep the cv joint from slipping off, they don't handle any substantial load during driving.


yep - no different than the spline connection in the hub really. joints will fail long before the splines would be a problem. Could efseiler have gotten the wrong axles with a larger different spline count/cup?

maybe I'm confused as to where the problem lies.

#11 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:38 AM

I didn't do the job...but I did inspect it afterwards.

They replaced both front half-axles with aftermarket joints.

I hand inspected one of them...the outer race 'cup' was securely fastened to the transmission stub which made be believe that the stub was not worn at all (in spite of many thousands of miles of grinding with the loose female connector).

However, after a few hundred miles of driving I re-inspected the assembly. Now the cup is slightly loose (which is exactly what I anticipated anyway).

Those aftermarket joints are probably designed that way on purpose. Soft steel without enough structural integrity. 'Planned obsolescence' is what they call it.

I'm betting that the Subaru OEM half-axles are what really are quality. When I visited the dealer once -- the parts guy actually showed me a drivetrain component that was made out of the 'toughest stuff'.

I guess one gets what one pays for....I can't afford a $350 half-axle anyway...so I suppose I just have to make do just like everyone else.

#12 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,978 posts
  • Texas

Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:47 AM

when you say 'outer', do you mean the DOJ 'cup'?

or the CV (Rzeppa) joint at the wheel?

#13 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:52 AM

I'm pretty sure it's a 'FEQ' brand one...

Cheap asian knockoff looks like....

Seems to have a bad reputation anyway.

#14 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:21 AM

no sorry...I mean the 'inner' part (the 'cup' component that attaches to the male end of the transmisson stub)

#15 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,978 posts
  • Texas

Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:27 AM

no sorry...I mean the 'inner' part (the 'cup' component that attaches to the male end of the transmisson stub)


just double checking.

most likely poorly rebuilt axles as you say. They will still probably split a boot open before they mechanically fail though.

many other people have also had good luck with EMPI from RockAuto. They are new and only a few bucks more than rebuilts. Might be a good intermediate choice between cheap rebuilts and OEM $$$$ units for you. I just installed my second one. Comes with a new spring pin and new axle nut.

or get MWE rebuilts. many people swear by them as they are properly rebuilt Subaru axles.

#16 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:32 AM

I don't think they are rebuilds...just a cheap asian product.


Steer clear of 'FEQ'...leastaways for CV joints.


Over and out,
Damien

#17 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:22 PM

as a side note...I visited the shop today and sure enough it was one of those cheap 'Made in China' joints.

The dealer said some of what they get from the suppliers are good but he said others are bad and that the label on the box is not necessarily a good indicator of ultimate quality.


--Damien

#18 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,978 posts
  • Texas

Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:43 PM

as a side note...I visited the shop today and sure enough it was one of those cheap 'Made in China' joints.

The dealer said some of what they get from the suppliers are good but he said others are bad and that the label on the box is not necessarily a good indicator of ultimate quality.


--Damien



My EMPIs I think are Chinese. Supposedly they come from a ISO9000 shop. Lifetime warranty too.

or maybe my limited experience was just lucky. I DID read where quite a few VW owners have had poor quality from FEQ - even snapped axles!

#19 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:59 AM

On the third Sube we have (one is permanently parked in our driveway) the inner race is very snugly mounted on the transmission stub with zero freeplay. It has probably many thousands of miles on it.

The race is green in color and I'm told it is indicative of the OEM ones (or so I've heard).


Eventually I'll find out where the problem exactly lies and let you fellas know.

--Damien

#20 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,978 posts
  • Texas

Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:27 AM

On the third Sube we have (one is permanently parked in our driveway) the inner race is very snugly mounted on the transmission stub with zero freeplay. It has probably many thousands of miles on it.

The race is green in color and I'm told it is indicative of the OEM ones (or so I've heard).


Eventually I'll find out where the problem exactly lies and let you fellas know.

--Damien


does the sping pin go all the way flush? I had to 'encourage' (with a bigger hammer) a pin to go in all the way. Dunno if that would create any looseness that could be felt.

#21 Ricearu

Ricearu

    Official De-Ricer!

  • Members
  • 1,214 posts
  • DFW, TX

Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:03 PM

I have never had a wobbly EMPI axle. I check the stub to axle free play, and never had a problem. You can order them from www.rockauto.com

We put a set of EMPI axles on my friend's FWD sedan. He has a stock trans with a JDM 2.5 bolted to it and he walks bug eyes and gets walked by my08+ wrx's. These are the smallest thinnest axles subaru put on a ej. Daily beaten. no clicks, shudders, or looseness.

#22 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:24 PM

Thanks for the tip...that's probably what I'm looking for.

Cheers!

--Damien

#23 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 353 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:48 PM

does the sping pin go all the way flush? I had to 'encourage' (with a bigger hammer) a pin to go in all the way. Dunno if that would create any looseness that could be felt.


no not in this case because it's a 'wobble' not a looseness.


Poorly machined splines, soft steel, worn stub or a combination of all three.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users