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Rack or Ujoint?


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19 replies to this topic

#1 grossgary

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:48 AM

Already replaced the pump with no change of symptoms.

Steering is predictably lumpy...good, very tight, good, very tight, good, very tight.

No noises or other issues.

I sprayed the ujoint with penetrant and no change in symptoms.

#2 ivans imports

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:20 AM

had a few with thiss problem lately was the belt slipping on ps pump just slightly when the groves get worn on belt will cause thiss change belt and try agian titening it dosent help.

#3 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:31 AM

had a few with thiss problem lately was the belt slipping on ps pump just slightly when the groves get worn on belt will cause thiss change belt and try agian titening it dosent help.


interesting - would a spray like Belt-Eze help, or, at least, help diagnose slippage is the problem?

#4 grossgary

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:51 AM

this isn't slippage. has a new belt on it.

#5 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:19 AM

I wonder.

IF you had the front in the air, carefully idling in neutral, and pulled/pushed the wheels left/right, would you feel the problem?

If so, disconnect the u-joint, then try again. If you still feel the problem, must be the rack or something below the joint.

longshot I know but, maybe it would help.


for that matter, with the wheels in the air and engine off, if you felt the problem, it may point to a mechanical issue and eliminate ANYTHING with the pump.

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 24 October 2012 - 11:21 AM.


#6 Ricearu

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:55 AM

sounds like the pressure valve in the rack to me. but may be mechanical.

#7 uniberp

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:11 AM

Already replaced the pump with no change of symptoms.

Steering is predictably lumpy...good, very tight, good, very tight, good, very tight.

No noises or other issues.

I sprayed the ujoint with penetrant and no change in symptoms.


Bent pinion shaft? IDK how that would happen, unless mercilessly reefed on at full lock.

#8 grossgary

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:11 PM

anyone know symptoms of a failed Subaru steering rack, is this plausible?
i expected a couple people to have seen this before?
i've never seen one fail before besides just leaking.

#9 johnceggleston

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:33 PM

Steering is predictably lumpy...good, very tight, good, very tight, good, very tight.

what is the frequency of the good, very tight, cycle.? how many times, lock to lock?
how large is the pinion gear in the rack?

maybe just an odd worn spot on the pinion, or a seal slipped down onto the gear or maybe just swap in one of those racks you been scrapping for all these years since they never fail.

i think i would disconnect one of the tie rod ends and see if that makes a difference. see if there is any binding in the knuckle it self. then do the other side. then see if the rack has an issue with out the knuckles attached. this should isolate the problem. you probably want ot have a spare rack on hand when you do all of this. you will be 2 bolts and 2 fluid lines away from removing the rack.

Edited by johnceggleston, 25 October 2012 - 03:44 PM.


#10 hankosolder2

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:56 PM

I had (apples to oranges, I know) a '76 Triumph TR-7 (manual R&P) with this exact symptom. Problem turned out to be a seized U-joint. I think it had two of them, and if I remember properly, the binding happened about every 1/4 turn of the wheel or so.

#11 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:59 PM

I had (apples to oranges, I know) a '76 Triumph TR-7 (manual R&P) with this exact symptom. Problem turned out to be a seized U-joint. I think it had two of them, and if I remember properly, the binding happened about every 1/4 turn of the wheel or so.


I worked with a guy that owned one for about 9 weeks. It spent more time in those 9 weeks getting warranty work done than at his house.

#12 grossgary

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:10 AM

what is the frequency of the good, very tight, cycle.? how many times, lock to lock?
how large is the pinion gear in the rack?

it turns fine for maybe 45 degrees (at most) - so 1/8th turn, then tight, then a few degrees, then tight...so maybe easy and tight 5 times in a full turn lock to lock.

***it is rhythmic, meaning it seems the same rhythm and timing, and will always have 5 cycles per full turn as described above (or however many it is, i'm guessing on that). it is never variable or comes-and-goes and never feels different.

wishful thinking has me wondering if just driving it might free something up since it has sat for a year and has some rust.

maybe just swap in one of those racks you been scrapping for all these years since they never fail.

i don't part out Soobs at all any more. i should have saved one!!

how large is the pinion gear in the rack?

no clue

you will be 2 bolts and 2 fluid lines away from removing the rack.

i've swapped racks before on older gen soobs - do you remember if the exhaust manifold has to come of to do it on EJ's?

disconnect the hubs, really? seems like that would be inconclusive, it'll either still be there or be undetectable simply because it's no longer under any load? be easy if i didn't have rust to deal with though!

#13 johnceggleston

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:40 PM

chances are it is either the rack as you are questioning or the u-joint.

***it is rhythmic, meaning it seems the same rhythm and timing, and will always have 5 cycles per full turn as described above (or however many it is, i'm guessing on that). it is never variable or comes-and-goes and never feels different.


iirc, it is about 2.5 rotations from full left to full right, more or less. 5 would mean it binds every half turn. (i know it was a guess but still it fits.) so every time one of the u joints is in a certain position, either right side up or up side down, it binds.

maybe mark the u-joint when it first starts to bind, and then when it next binds. see if there is a pattern as you go from full left to full right.lightening the load on the tires might make it easier to turn and yet still bind.

have you tried it with the wheels in the air? without a load the binding should be less? right? but if you can still feel it you may be able to better identify it .

i guess you can tell i think it is in the u-joint. that is a more common fail point than the rack, as you know.

#14 grossgary

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

with one wheel off the ground therevis no difference. sounds reasonable that ujoint would be so rythmic.

marking the ujoint thing sounds like a good idea too.

how hard are the joints to replace?

#15 lmdew

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:46 AM

Have to lower the rack some or pull the steering column back. I'd go with the rack. drop the exhaust, just off the engine is enough. Remove the jack pad on the cross member, Remove the 4 rack bolts. Then it's just pulling the 12mm ujoint bolts. Assemble in reverse order keeping the steering wheel and front end in the same positon.

#16 johnceggleston

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 08:35 AM

actually, the u joint is designed to slide further onto one of the shafts with the pinch bolt loose and the other bolt removed. (one bolt is obviously a pinch bolt, the top i think) on the the lower shaft, remove the bolt, then loosen the top and slide the joint more on to the lower shaft which will release the top end.(you may have to clean up the splines to get it to slide.) then slide back up and off.

i suggest either both wheels on ramps or one wheel on the ground when doing this. it is hard enough to keep the steering wheel ''straight'' (tie it off) without the wheels loose and flopping around. i may be mis-remembering the wheels flopping around but you want them to be pretty stationary.

it is easier to tie off the steering wheel than to mark the shaft under the car. tying in 2 directions may be your best bet, triangulate. the less slop the better.

Edited by johnceggleston, 27 October 2012 - 09:00 AM.


#17 Speedwagon

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:07 AM

actually, the u joint is designed to slide further onto one of the shafts with the pinch bolt loose and the other bolt removed. (one bolt is obviously a pinch bolt, the top i think) on the the lower shaft, remove the bolt, then loosen the top and slide the joint more on to the lower shaft which will release the top end.(you may have to clean up the splines to get it to slide.) then slide back up and off.

i suggest either both wheels on ramps or one wheel on the ground when doing this. it is hard enough to keep the steering wheel ''straight'' (tie it off) without the wheels loose and flopping around. i may be mis-remembering the wheels flopping around but you want them to be pretty stationary.

it is easier to tie off the steering wheel than to mark the shaft under the car. tying in 2 directions may be your best bet, triangulate. the less slop the better.


Also, position the heaviest part of the wheel straight down. Less likely to try and move then.

#18 hankosolder2

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:19 PM

I worked with a guy that owned one for about 9 weeks. It spent more time in those 9 weeks getting warranty work done than at his house.


Not to threadjack, but this one was about 12 years old when I got it and was reliable for another four years 'till the rear diff went out. The secret was replacing the horrible Lucas electronic ignition with an aftermarket unit.

Also, my son is dressing as Gort this halloween. (vis a vis your avatar)

Sorry for the digressions.

Nathan

#19 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

Not to threadjack, but this one was about 12 years old when I got it and was reliable for another four years 'till the rear diff went out. The secret was replacing the horrible Lucas electronic ignition with an aftermarket unit.

Also, my son is dressing as Gort this halloween. (vis a vis your avatar)

Sorry for the digressions.

Nathan


Yeah, often, cars that have poor reliability reputations are better as used cars as the issues have been worked out.

fun costume! (I'm a fan of old school sci-fi/fantasy. The wife and I went to a Fathom Event last wednesday and saw Franenstein and Bride of F on the big screen. - fun, check here; http://www.fathomevents.com/ , also, I recently attended a Tugg event to see Iron Sky , but I noticed among the other titles they have, one that I am considering sponsoring myself - Jason and the Argonauts. http://www.tugg.com/ , I wish the website worked better there. )

I have one of those creepy horse masks I may take to work on the 31st;

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#20 grossgary

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

pulled the ujoint today - one of the joints, the top one, is completely seized. glad it wasn't the rack.

Removal involved the following:

Remove both 12mm bolts - top one easily accessible from up top with a ratchet extension. Lower one easily accessible too.

On this 99 Legacy the coupler slides up and then comes off the rack.

Will install a new one in a bit.




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