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Limited Slip in the front diff?????


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16 replies to this topic

#1 greggbrat

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 10:08 AM

Is it possible to install the LSD components from a rear diff into the front diff of a 5sp D/R tranny?

Is there any other way to get a limited slip or locker in the front? (I already know about the divorced t-case option)

Thanks,
Gregg

#2 Qman

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 10:59 AM

No, the diffs are completely different. There is a company that makes front LSD conversions. I don't recall the name right now.

#3 subarubrat

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 11:14 AM

Phanton grip, they claim to be able to convert just about any diff into a limited slip unit. The common word is that it is effective for drag use but not for offroad, of course other opinions contradict. I can't recall one person who has actually done it yet. I was considering it before I went Tcase.

#4 soobme

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 12:07 PM

A friend at work has one in the front of his Civic, so we jacked up one side with floor jack and he put it in gear and tried to drive(with only 1 wheel on the ground) At 1st nothing, but then, with a little brake modulation it started to hook-up. It toolk a little brake work, but we got it to drive around on 1 wheel= good for off road :D U can order a stifer spring set ("green spring set" I think) that should make it even better for off road use.

#5 greggbrat

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 12:40 PM

Does anyone know the website or contact information for "Phanton Grip"? I would like to inquire about a front LSD.

#6 carfreak85

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 01:22 PM

Google, man's best friend! http://www.phantomgr...php?make=Subaru This is probably what you need. Read more about how it works, its pretty interesting!

GREEN SPRING UPGRADE NOT AVAL. FOR HITACHI R160!!!

#7 soobme

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 03:28 PM

Yes, but that's for the R160, U might be able to get it for the LSD that they can make for the FRONT DIF. :rolleyes: It's hard to say, depends on how stout they think our front difs are to begin with.

#8 greggbrat

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 03:30 PM

What is the R160? Is that the rear diff?

#9 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 05:05 PM

Yes the R160 is the rear diff. I for one have looked at the design of their "LSD", and I think it's crap. That's just my personal opinion. I guess the best term for it is a "friction spool". I suppose it may be better than nothing. Better to take a real LSD unit from something else and have it machined to fit in the front. Especially since the installation requires the dissasembly of the tranny. In the specific case of Subaru's, the front diff is too complicated to get to in the fist place to bother doing anything as lame as the "phantom grip". If your going to do it, do it right.

GD

#10 nutt7

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 07:03 PM

Sport Compact Car tested phantom grip lsd's on a few cars and they say they are awesome compared to others including factory lsd's, especially for the price, but then again, I think they were all street cars...

#11 carfreak85

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 09:14 PM

GeneralDisorder, all I can say is don't knock it until you've tried it!

#12 greggbrat

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 09:23 PM

It appears to boil down to the fact that there is no front diff LSD option. After reading through all the different threads on the subject its even more confusing. Some people even claim that Phanton Grip makes a front LSD....but that doesnt actually appear to be true. I dont have the machine shop to fabricate something new or try to retrofit another LSD. I dont even know what an LSD looks like. My experience is entirely with Trakloc Lockers. But I will shortly learn what the rear LSD is like because I have a 3.7 LSD diff and a 3.9 non-LSD diff. Hopefully I will be able to make a 3.9 LSD Diff.

Has anyone out here actually seen the guts of the front diff? I think that if we all collaborated and pooled our various resources of time, tools, parts and a few bucks we might actually be able to come up with a solution. I will have a spare 4speed D/R tranny very soon that I can tear down and donate parts to the cause. We might even get the administrators of this site to setup a special section for "building a front diff" so that we can attract more people to the cause.

#13 RXTurbo

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 12:06 AM

Cusco Japan make a front LSD to suit the Legacy box, it would fit the L series box too.

#14 Turbone

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 12:12 AM

With enough money, you can get anything :D

#15 WJM

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 10:24 AM

Ive got a spare 2wd turbo XT trans laying around, maybe that will be my next project victim. ;)

#16 Tycho

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 08:12 PM

I've had 3 differentials in my saturn...

Stock open diff.
Phantom Grip with both red and green springs.
Quaife ATB.

The phantom grip keeps one wheel chatter down (when you do spin one wheel)...and works on really sketchy stuff (where neither wheel gets much traction)...but it isn't even close to the quaife. It's probably 10 percent better than stock if a quaife is 100 percent better than stock. With the red springs it was useless. Note that it NEVER "locks" like they advertize it to. You just get some friction on the spider gears.

Any magazine that says the PG is the shiznit is being given lots of money to do so. Put your 300 bucks towards a real LSD and you'll be much more satisified in the end.

some phantom grip pics
http://homepage.mac....otoAlbum15.html

some quaife pics (note that the place I bought it from lied whe they said they machined it to proper clearance...as we found out after driving the car...nothing rubbed till we put torque to the tranny...and then it was a nasty noise)
http://homepage.mac....wno/index2.html

#17 greggbrat

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 09:06 PM

OK, lets get back on topic. Looking for ideas for the front differential.

1. Phanton Grip does NOT make a front LSD to fit the 2nd/3rd Gen subaru
2. Cusco Japan LSD's cost is in excess of $1000 which is rather steep. And I cant really tell from their website if they make one for the front diff.

We are back at square one. Someone mentioned the idea of modifying a rear diff LSD to fit the front. Has anyone done any homework on this idea. I would be happy to get the ball rolling but I would need a front diff assembly from a 5speed D/R to get started. I already have all the rear diff parts. Perhaps I could visit a few tranny shops/machine shops and see what is possible.

Does anyone have a front diff assembly from a 5speed D/R to donate for the cause?




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