sho Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 i'm working on a 91 legacy AT w/MPFI. i changed the oil pan gasket and sprayed (cleaned) the engine down 2 weeks ago. then i checked for codes on the ecu. i got a 35 and 24, i was able to fix the 35 code. i got another one from the junk yard and cleaned it out with brake cleaner like everyone said on the forum, it tested fine, but the code was still thier after the reset. i went ahead and changed the starter, plugs and plug wires. after all all was done the engine started to run crappy. my dad tok the car when i got some lunch, and broke down across the street. after that the car didn't start. i checked too see if fuel was being delivered, fuel was present. i checked to see if their was a spark issue, spark was present but not bright. i cant figure out whats wrong. any help is appreciated. thanx in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 you could have a loose plug wire, or in the wrong order. The Legacy uses a "Waste spark" DIS, so one loose wire will actually kill the spark to two cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 4, 2004 Author Share Posted April 4, 2004 i'm sure it's in the right order. i just changed out the coil, but to no avail. i just hear the starter turning the motor. any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 You may have a timing issue causing problem. I would check the compression also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 The coil packs are known to go bad which fits in with the weak spark you observed. You may be able to pick up a salvage unit for cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 5, 2004 Author Share Posted April 5, 2004 already bought a new one @ NAPA. i need to wait on the compression checker. is thier anything else that i must have forgotten to put back on? gonna check the spark again tomorrow afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 When did it start to run "crappy"? My 90 Loyale went belly up after I hosed off the engine. Spark plug wires or connections? Try using the old wires or verify good contact. Residual water in distributor cap or coil plug insert? Dry out inside of distributor cap... if you've got one on the Leg 91. Common things happen commonly! If you hear something clip clopping down the road, chances are that is a horse and not a zebra (exception for those USMB members from Africa). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 5, 2004 Author Share Posted April 5, 2004 i got the car with an oil leak and codes 24 and 35. the acceleration was awful, but it moved. after the engine was sprayed and i removed the 35 code it ran like a champ. i let it sit for about a week (starting it every other day), i changed out the starter, plugs, plug wires and cleaned the egr valve on the intake manifold.then the car seemed like it was running on two cylinders. i did put back the old wires, nothing. i even put back the old plugs.still nothing.i also changed out the coil pack. the car still won't start. weird............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Vacuum line to the EGR solenoid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Might have pulled something loose when you cleaned the EGR valve. Look real close all around the manifold for loose hoses. I dont think this would keep it from starting tho, you may have some other issues also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 there is no egr valve on the first gen legacies. Have you tried resetting the ECU? It should clear any outstanding codes that are not present. If you do clear them, and they still come back, then you still have problems with that particular sensor. Have you looked at the IAC valve. that's what code 24 is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 5, 2004 Author Share Posted April 5, 2004 i've cleaned the IAC w/brake cleaner ,opens and closes smoothly. i tested the IAC using the FSM procedure it checks out execpt for the resistance. i do kno that it is bad. would the IAC cause the car to not start? the battery has been disconnected since last night, so i'm goning to run the codes again. will i still be able to clear the ecu even if the car won't start?( i've read your procedure on that Leacy777) i won't be able to get the car warmed up to clear the codes. i'll follow up when i get off work. i've been able to stall for time on this guys car. thanx again guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 If you had the battery out.....that should've cleared the codes. When you try to start it....what happens? Does it turn over, and just not start? If you check the codes after reconnecting the battery, it should display if there are any codes stored. If the IAC valve is out of whack, it's possible the car won't start. You can try just completely unplugging it, and then try starting the car.....that'd tell you for sure. If the car starts with it unplugged......then you found your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 update: i checked the timing and the timing was way off. i still need to do the compression check. i'm just wondering if the vavles are still ok. car still didn't start. gonna try and jump the car tomorrow cause the battery might be low on charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 It would be nice to know how the compression of each cylinder is so doing a check is good. Since the car was running before something happened (a slipped timing belt perhaps) it should run the same after you get the timing problem solved. I don't know if your engine is an interference type or not. Hopefully you don't have a problem there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 valves will be fine....it's a non-interference engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 update: the compression check came out ok. all cylinders are within spec. i've tried to start it after i did the compression check. i have a 2nd gen rx7 and when i try to start it for a long while i smell gas. on the legacy, as many times as i've tried to start it, i don't smell any. i know thier is going power to the fuel pump, i can hear the fuel pump when i turn the key, the injectors are ok will thier be a problem with the fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Pull a plug and see if it's wet with gas. While you have the plug out, clamp it to some metal on the engine with the plug wire attached and turn it over. That will tell you if you have spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 i might have to try doing that again. thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOMAD327 Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 On newer cars, I have seen people have trouble from the short 1" diameter air hose that goes from the main induction hose to the idle air control valve. It is out of sight on the bottom of the big rubber hose, and pulls off pretty easy when you are just messing with the air filter. When off, most of the induction air can bypass the mass air sensor and the engine will just barely run or not at all. I don't know if your car has this arrangement, but it's easy to check, and will prevent the car from running after simple maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 11, 2004 Author Share Posted April 11, 2004 i've looked @ that already and still no start. i'm gonna check the ECU and Ignitor later today. since my last post i've changed the fuel regulator and coil pack. i've cleaned the trottle body and intake manifold. it starting to think its the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Once again, do you have spark? If you do, then your crankshaft position sensor is working, and you should have fuel, too. If you don't have spark, but have fuel, I'd look at the coil and ignitor. If you don't have anything, I'd check crankshaft position sensor, camshaft position sensor, and the timing belt. If you have spark, but no fuel, I'd look at fuel pump, injectors (or the signal from the ecu to the injectors), or the ecu. If you have normal compression, then it's not the base engine, unless the timing belt has jumped a few teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 alright, this is where i stand now. i'm leaving town for a week in 6 days, i've got till then to fix this car. heres what i did today. i changed the Coil pack with a good one (big spark, really bright), i changed out the fuel pressure regulator. i listened for the injectors to tick while someone started the car, i heard the ticking in all four. i sprayed starting fluid into the intake manifold, and tried to start it. It still turns over like always, but doesn't start. weird. i figured that the starting fluid would at least ignite. still don't smell any gas. the only thing i could think of is that the fuel pump isn't creating enough pressure. any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 You could always pull the output hose off the filter, put a few feet of fuel hose onto the filter and into a gas can, and turn the key on. Fuel should pump out of the filter at a pretty good rate. That will let you know if you're at least getting fuel to the injector rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sho Posted April 16, 2004 Author Share Posted April 16, 2004 i've check the fuel pressure after the fuel pump and it reads very good. on the gauge that i use, it shot up to 60psi, i know thats not normal, but hell it has enough pressure. took the exhaust half way off to see if thier is a exhaust blockage. still doing that right now.update again soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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