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4spd D/R to 5spd D/R swap


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23 replies to this topic

#1 LUVMYBRAT

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 10:37 PM

allright I know this has been discussed.I tried a search but wasn't very successful(i'm sure it's not because I'm computor illiterate) anyways....I have access to a 5spd d/r unit,not sure of quality ,but regardless, my question lies in the real time pros and cons of the swap. I am currently having third gear issues with the 4spd d/r in my 85 Brat,but I also have access to another 4spd.soooo....should I do the swap? is it relativly easy?I am mechanically ept its just that I'm allergic to actually working.what are other parts needed for swap than just the tranny? any major mods? ALSO!! I have a three inch lift planned,how would the swap coincide with that? and lastly what would be ideal clutch configuration if swap was done. Like always this board is the greatest and all advise is accepted and appreciated

#2 bratsrus1

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 11:58 PM

Hi Luvmybrat This is Jerry, that is a no brainer do the 5 speed you will love it. To make things ez you will need the kit that i make up for the swap over. It is an all bolt in kit and you retain all stock shifters and your consel. When you get your 5 speed you need to get the 5 speed shift linkage and the tranny mounts. You keep the EA81 flywheel and prusser plate. You will need to get the 5 speed clutch disc. Then you will need to lenghten the drive line 51 inches of new tubing. If you get this kit it will fit the stock brat and when you lift your brat you need to change only the 4x4 linkage everything else is the same. Let me know Thanks Jerry

#3 NoahDL88

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 12:42 AM

Qman swears by the 5spd, and Eric swears by the 4spd, its in the air, i'm sure there are pros and cons for both, i'd reccomend the EA-81 flywheel though with the EA-81 pressure plate and the EA-82 clutch if you go with the 5spd. need also the EA-82 throw out bearing. either way they both have their advantages

#4 the sucker king

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 12:59 AM

Qman swears by the 5spd, and Eric swears by the 4spd, its in the air, i'm sure there are pros and cons for both,


so even though there have been 1 million post about this, let's here and now have a throw down of those pros and cons? i would like to know what those who would know think about this (i'm talking to ANYBODY that has experience with both.)

#5 NoahDL88

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 01:15 AM

the 5spd is great if you are running street tires, but if your running 28's then the 5th gear is pretty much usless, the 4th in the 4spd is taller, so its better for acceleration so you don't have to shift down into third as often, in a 5spd you'll be in 3rd a lot. the 1st in the 4spd is also better but it has a lower crawl ratio, so that means its better getting to the off road site, but not as good off road, but with the right driver, ie ken or eric, the crawl ratio is a mute point. the little difference isn't a big deal its like 22 for the EA-82 and 21 for the EA-81, the crawl ratio that is.

how much time do you spend on road and with what tires.

onroad small tires, go with the 5spd
offroad, big tires go with the 4spd

#6 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 03:20 AM

You have failed to mention the shorter 3rd and 4th gears for the 81/82 4 speed's. Specifically, Eric ONLY uses these (me too, although a 5 speed would be fine in my opinion, but the direct bolt-up of the 82 4 speed is very nice, and I can see his point there). The rest of the 4 speeds everyone agrees are bad. Beleive me, the gearing for 3 and 4 (on a post 82 4 speed) is NOT COOL with big tires. You will be THE slowest thing on the road, with the possible exception of a 360.

GD

#7 the sucker king

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 03:36 AM

You have failed to mention the shorter 3rd and 4th gears for the 81/82 4 speed's. Specifically, Eric ONLY uses these (me too, although a 5 speed would be fine in my opinion, but the direct bolt-up of the 82 4 speed is very nice, and I can see his point there). The rest of the 4 speeds everyone agrees are bad. Beleive me, the gearing for 3 and 4 (on a post 82 4 speed) is NOT COOL with big tires. You will be THE slowest thing on the road, with the possible exception of a 360.

GD


INTERESTING! i've seen mention of the early dual range 4 spd before, so anyways i have an '87 4spd d/r in my car now. and yes i hate 3rd and 4th gear with 185/80/13's on it. mostly i hate 4th. you think i would benifit from finding an early ea81 d/r trans? BTW i heard there was a difference in ea81 flywheels over the years, any truth to that? ie. this year was heavier than that.

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 03:40 AM

If you can find one cheap, with good syncro's, then yes. But that's hard to find, and the 4 speeds eat syncro's like crazy. 3rd gear mostly. Mine is on the way out in fact. And 2nd gear on my Brat is too.

82 and older 4WD's used the same clutch/flywheel as the 2WD's. 83+ went to a 25mm larger clutch, and thus a lighter flywheel. But the two are NOT interchageable. You want the 83+ one. Without the larger clutch, big tires will NOT BE GOOD. Been there, done that too. My wagon was 2WD when I started, and I didn't know the clutch was different..... yeah.... bad times.

GD

#9 edrach

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 09:07 AM

For me the primary difference is that you no longer have to over-rev in third or lug the engine in fourth. With the 5 speed, there is always a gear that will put you into the power band of the engine. Additionally, on the highway, 500 rpm less at cruising speed is nice too. I'd never go back if I can avoid it.

#10 LUVMYBRAT

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 09:27 AM

looks one of the issues noted was two different styles/years of 4 spd trannys.Mines a 85 brat and I've got that 3rd gear syncro issue,my other 4spd comes out of the same year hatch,and the 5spd comes from a newer wagon.sounds like a syncro issue or even poor gear ratio is what 4spd is all about and the 5 spd sounds pretty solid. Is this a correct assumption?

#11 AKIRA

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 10:52 AM

so wait, you are saying that 3rd and 4th suck with 185/80's?

I asked everybody before and they said that 175/70 to 185/80 wasn't even a noticable difference.

so is it or not?

sorry to hijacjk

#12 PALION

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 11:54 AM

I'm in the midst of this swap right now. I think that the rear end gear ratio and the transfer case ratio are different. If this is true, then that will be the most "problematic" stage of the process. Will not the gear ratio need to be changed in the rear end? I will run in 2WD till that is cleared up.

The wiring will have to be changed so that the neutral switch, for starting, and the reverse switch, for backing up safely will operate correctly. I hope that that won't be too stressful. I'll let you know as that is the next step that I will take. . . .( in about one hour). Does anyone know the proper wiring connection to save me some time and some saying bad words that my gramma might not like to hear?

Pictures of the entire process would have been nice. However, my camera died on me. (Kodak DC215)

#13 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 06:24 PM

The diff's are not different, unless you are talking about the fairly rare, RX full-time 4WD dual range. But it's low range is only 1.2:1, and it has a 3.7 diff..... which makes it useless for off-roading.

GD

#14 greggbrat

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 06:37 PM

What is in this kit that Bratsrus1 is selling for the tranny swap? Is it just linkage that allows the use of the same interior console? Or is there more to it?

I am in the middle of the tranny swap right now also. My big surprise was that I have to lengthen the driveshaft. Thats going to be the most expensive part of the entire tranny swap. I didnt realize the EA82 5sp D/R was shorter than the 4sp D/R.

Is there a subaru (or other) driveshaft that is already the correct size for this tranny swap? (I could pick up one real cheap at a junkyard)

Thanks,
Gregg

#15 greggbrat

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 06:43 PM

Here are the gear ratios if anyone is interested

Year ............................1st ........2nd ......3rd ......4th .........5th .......Rev .....4wd low

1982 D/R.....................3.636.....1.950....1.193....0.769.................3.583....1.462

1982 Brat D/R..............3.636.....1.950....1.266....0.885.................3.583....1.462

1983-1988 4dr/RX ......3.545.....2.111....1.448....1.088....0.871....3.416....1.196

1983-1988 Wagon........3.545....1.947 ....1.366....0.972....0.780....3.416....1.592

#16 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 06:52 PM

Use the EA82 driveshaft - you just have to weld the carrier bearing in place since it's a 2 peice shaft. But it is the right size.

GD

#17 greggbrat

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 06:58 PM

The EA82 Wagon driveshaft will fit a 1982 Brat with the tranny swap? That would imply that the 82 Brat and the EA82 Wagon have an identical wheelbase length.......is that true??????

#18 the sucker king

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 02:44 AM

so wait, you are saying that 3rd and 4th suck with 185/80's?

I asked everybody before and they said that 175/70 to 185/80 wasn't even a noticable difference.


i remember that thread. my 2 cents is this. i didn't notice a difference when a went from 175/70 to 185/70, nor did i notice when i changed from 185/70 to 185/ 80, had i skipped the middle step, i suspect i would notice.

regardless, subarus are so ball-less that no matter what your size of tire, we might all benefit from a not so tall 3rd and 4th gear

#19 LUVMYBRAT

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 11:53 AM

back to the shaft, so like the post I should grab the driveshaft out of the wagon that I'm pulling the 5spd d/r range from?? and use it in conjunction to the tranny swap,I just need to weld hanger bearing? what about axles? what combo fits the tranny swap cenario?

#20 greggbrat

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 03:30 PM

I didnt think to ask.......I am assuming the axles on my brat are a direct bolt on to the new EA82 5sp D/R tranny. Someone please verify. And also please verify if the EA82 Wagon driveshaft will fit the 82 brat with the tranny swap.

Thanks!!

#21 LUVMYBRAT

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 11:53 AM

bump... answers to the last two posts ... PLEEAASE.I have almost all these parts and would like to begin the build .

#22 greggbrat

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 01:58 PM

I am doing the tranny swap right now......just taking a little break. From what I have read in other posts the axles will swap as long as your going from a non-turbo to a non-turbo tranny or from a turbo to a turbo tranny. Apparently the splines are different between turbo and nonturbo.

Everything I read says the driveshaft from an EA82 wagon will bolt straight on to a brat regardless of if it is turbo or not.....no difference. Not sure about other vehicles.

I will have firsthand knowledge about this stuff by tomorrow. :-) Wish me luck.

#23 ShawnW

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 02:02 PM

Answers:
Driveshaft on an ea82 car is a 2 piece. Your 4spd is a 1 pc. You would have to have your ea81 shaft lengthened or you will have to weld the carrier bearing support into the tunnel of your car to use the ea82. Any misalignment will not be good though. I had my driveshaft lengthened at a cost of around 150 bucks with new u-joints.

If you are using a non turbo ea82 Trans then your ea81 axles will work. If you are using a turbo trans you need custom axles.

#24 LUVMYBRAT

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 02:31 PM

very cool! in welding up carrier what sort of custom bracketry is needed?and if done this way what would be best way to insure true alignment from tranny to diff?hey thanks for all info




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