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car wont heat up


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28 replies to this topic

#1 djellum

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:24 PM

so i've never dealt with motor that was too cold before, but it really seems like my car is just never getting to op temp.

My car during the summer months would run around 20% up the gauge past the C. at that temp the heater just starts to put out luke warm air. the fan was never on, not while driving or idling.

occasionally when I got into heavy traffic it would climb up to 50% or so and then the fan would come on and it would bounce between 40%-50%. at this time the heater worked as it should. the car also ran smoother at this point since it was fully warmed up.

the other day I fixed the vacuum advance and readjusted the timing and carb (back down to 8 deg, and running very well). now when I'm on the freeway it doesn't even get fully past the C.

Ive flushed the system and put 50/50 in, (though I can't see a clog causing it to underheat), replace the thermostat (I used a 192 deg, and the one I took out was a 192 deg).

everything flows fine, unless its just replacing a bad thermostat with a "bad out of the box" one i cant think of anything else. the temps on the gauge reflect the heat of the air coming out of the heater, the fan works fine and comes on if I ever hit operating temp, but not before. don't think its a sender issue or something.

#2 Stubies Subie

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:52 PM

it sounds to me like a thermostat that's sticking open, but like you said, unless you got a bad one that was new out of the box, that seems unlikely.

I've heard rumor that the EA82's only like a factory thermostat, and that's what I have in mine, mine does run cool as well hardly ever going past the 1/4 mark on the gauge any time of year, but my heat blows hot even when the temp gauge is barely off the cold mark when warming up, so I have to wonder if you might possibly also have a partially plugged up heater core.

#3 old sub freak

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:07 AM

Feel the hoses to your heater core.One hotter than the other? I have seen the "temp switch"(the thing that regulates the water flow into the heater core)frozen and had to work it loose.Or the core is pulged.You can try and flush it out by undoing the hoses on the engine side of the firewall and running water one way then the other.Guys have loaded it up with radeator flush and let it sit awhile,then flush it out.I tried that only to have it leak later.The way i have found to rule out a plugged core is that with the car warmed up you turn on the heater fan and warm or hot air blasts out ,but then get "trepid" or lukewarm ,then almost cool and you end up turning off the fan and just shivering..yep,cores plugged!!....my favorite trick to replace the heater core is instead of pulling the dash and all that I used a dremmel tool and cut away the plastic "face "that keeps the core in the heater.i worked on the drivers side where the 2 brass tubes come out of the heater. anyway once you cut away the plastic you can slide the core out like a radio or something.Once the core is out you can clean out any leaves and such then slide in your new core ad a few zip ties and some calking and your ready to face the cold!!! sorry for carrying on so,but I have done this on a few of my E82's and it saved me hours of labor..It seems that the cores were around $80 bucks at napa,now that was a while back.Good luck and stay warm.Toddnick.

#4 el_freddo

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:12 AM

+1 for a blocked core or a partial blockage at least.

Back flush the core, rod the pipes from the engine where you can and hopefully something will come of it.

Or the temp sender unit has an issue.

Cheers

Bennie

#5 NoahDL88

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:10 PM

I've had a new thermostat fail out of the box, also EA-82

Make sure you have enough fluid in there, and feel around on the hoses for sudden changes from hot to cold.

#6 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:10 PM

seems unlikely you'd get cool air AND a low temp reading, and it NOT be something common. Air bubble, bad flow, open t'stat w'ever.

Maybe pull the t'stat and test it on the stove - should open at 170f. and of course close again.

#7 djellum

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:18 PM

yah the heater core is a target, but I cant see where that would cause the operating temp to be cold. and when the op temp gets higher the heater works fine. I want to get the operating temp issue fixed first, so I can trouble shoot the rest. Ill prob pick up a radiator cap on the way home just in case. heres a question for those that know this system better than I...

is there a bypass where a blocked core could cause the water to circulate in the block faster than normal and keep it colder?

Any suggestions on T stat? I used a fail open when i replaced it, but i guess if its a fail open and its broken from the start it might cause an issue. I can order a subaru dealer part if needed as well, but I cant see where theres any specific difference, 192 degrees i just as hot in Japan as it is here.

#8 old sub freak

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:03 PM

You sure it unstalled right? i still have to double check to make sure i do it right? No offence OK? If your heater works fine when the temp is higher than the Heater core is fine....Hmmm For the price of a new thermastat,I would try that just to be sure that is not it...Did the last thermastat come from O'nelleys?? I quit going there years ago because of issures like this.Some stores just sell cheap stuff and you do get what you pay for...so .....find out why the temp fluctuates and I think you will have it...Live and Learn...right?

#9 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:18 PM

EDIT !; please ignore my posts in this thread. I have little knowledge and no experience with older soobs.


this is the Stant Xacstat #48457 that is supposedly built like a soob unit NOT FOR EA SERIES THOUGH _ MY MISTAKE !;

Posted Image

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 17 November 2012 - 08:43 AM.


#10 djellum

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

yah should be installed right, done a bunch of them. nothing says I cant have a moment though.

ill prob try a rad cap and replace the thermo again just in case. ill try a non fail open one.

#11 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:22 AM

nvrmd

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 02 November 2012 - 07:22 AM.


#12 old sub freak

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:13 PM

Ok as long as we are on the subject...What is the little "Tickler" for and where should it be put when installed? Front or back.As I remember it goes to the front of the car..I think?? Yea The Tickler...That is what I have heard it called...the little bb sized thing that rattles around on top of the disc....Any thoughts and what do you call it? toddnickl

#13 Caboobaroo

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

I personally point it forwards. Figure that's the easiest direction for air to go as I'm filling it.

#14 86 Wonder Wedge

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:16 AM

The "Jiggle valve" should be on the highest point so the air doesn't get trapped (pointed toward the radiator on our EA82s).

And those thermostat pictures are interesting.. it seems my car doesn't get too hot either... granted, when I turn the A/C or Defrost on (even in the cold, 40F temps) the temp would rise slightly.. but still never above half..

and I replaced it with a beck/arnley exact temp one, 10K miles ago, but I don't remember it looking like that, nor the one I pulled out (the old one MAY have said MotoRad on it..)

#15 ShawnW

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:08 AM

this is the Stant Xacstat #48457 that is supposedly built like a soob unit;

Posted Image


That's a newer model Subaru part for Legacy, Impreza, Forester, etc. Doesn't work on the ea82 or ea81 series cars or engines.

#16 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:20 AM

That's a newer model Subaru part for Legacy, Impreza, Forester, etc. Doesn't work on the ea82 or ea81 series cars or engines.



DOH!

Is the OEM part for those cars the same as aftermarket?

I admit to being ignorant about the older soobs. Dunno how I got in this thread - I'll just go back to lurking.

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 02 November 2012 - 07:23 AM.


#17 ShawnW

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:39 PM

The OEM part is of course a little better quality but with the EA series, the t-stat is on the top of the engine and less prone to being a problem when its a Stant or other similar brand.

#18 djellum

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

I'll try the stant.

I think im just gonna get another thermostat and put it in. I really cant think of anything else that could cause it. if it doesnt fix it I guess I will just have to put some cardboard over the radiator or something, but I would like to avoid that type of "fix"

#19 Quidam

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:33 PM

Here is the Gates OE EXACT fit. "This type is engineered with a self-cleaning, self-aligning stainless steel valve". Never used one but it looks pretty good.
http://www.rockauto....Gates/34020.jpg

Compare to a Stant OE type for these cars.
http://www.rockauto....Stant/13859.jpg

Gates is the better one here. I run an OE now and it's old, so old the rubber inside is cracking, but it still works.

OE thermostats are built like the old Robert Shaw stats for old american iron. You hardley ever have to replace them. That Gates is the better of the two though. I've seen the bottom type malfunction where the pin not being tied down gets cocked and stick open.

Once upon a time, I don't think I couldive even bought a junk american made thermostat. They're just not what they used to be.

Doug

Edited by Quidam, 02 November 2012 - 08:42 PM.


#20 djellum

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

turns out it was the thermostat, new one was stuck wide open (wasnt like that when I put it in, but whatever).

doing much better, though still wish it would get a little warmer when im on the road. guess it may just be low ambient temp.

#21 old sub freak

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:12 PM

Very good!! so did you get a Gates or the stant? or?? Well I learned alot about thermostats. Its something I never really thought much about I guess,But now I know!! I'll never look at them the same again!! Hahaha The pictures sure showed that the Gates to be the better one.Even the spring looked better..Happy Trails..PS Sometime the temp guages can be off some.But as long as you are good and warm....and not overheaten...Hey!! life is good....

Edited by old sub freak, 03 November 2012 - 09:16 PM.
old


#22 djellum

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:26 PM

Motor Rad I think was the brand name. no idea what the other one was, ive never really paid attention to quality, even the cheap ones always seemed to work fine. the broken one managed to hook the fail stop on one side and bind up. might have just been a little crooked to begin with or something.

my gauge seems correct, everything relating to the temp acts the same. when the car is hot enough to kick on the electric fan, then the heat blows hot, engine runs well, etc.

when it is dead cold, then the fan never comes on, the heater blows cold, and it runs like you didnt let it warm up.

right now it sticks around 20%-30% up the gauge while driving, and the heater blows warm, but not really hot at that temp. At 50% is where the fan kicks on, and then the heater is behaving like a heater on high should.

Like I said, not 100% satisfied yet, but its in a working useable condition so I can move on to some more important things for right now.

thanks for all the help, guess in the end theres just not many things besides a thermo that can cause this.

#23 old sub freak

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

I bet your heater core is somewhat pluged.The simptom I remember was that you could turn the fan on and have great heat,but then in a few minutes.....brrrr it starts blowing out "trepid" heat... the fan must cool off everything till the heater core is cool,thus cool air..Oh I don't know for sure but if it gets cold enough it will have to be addressed.....Take care

#24 Quidam

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:24 AM

yah the heater core is a target, but I cant see where that would cause the operating temp to be cold. and when the op temp gets higher the heater works fine. I want to get the operating temp issue fixed first, so I can trouble shoot the rest. Ill prob pick up a radiator cap on the way home just in case. heres a question for those that know this system better than I...

is there a bypass where a blocked core could cause the water to circulate in the block faster than normal and keep it colder?


Posted Image
Water pump pushes coolant through the block, then the heads up to the intake manifold. The metal tube out the back of the intake manifold supplies the heater core. The out line from the heater core runs to the water pump.

Thermostat closed.

A laser temp gun would help you sort it out. By your description, it still doesn't work like it's supposed to. I keep thinking a partially plugged heater core. But, don't know.

Doug

#25 Quidam

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:08 PM

Ha! Now I know what you mean. Drove the Loyale 10 miles through the hills, chip and seal roads. The temp gage only went not quite halfway between Cold and halfway. Heat just didn't feel hot. My first winter with this car with a now junked OEM stat.

I drove it home a different route on the freeway, the temp gage came up but not to half way.

I put the temp gun on the stat lower housing and most I got was 173*F, top was 150's.

Installed new USA made stat I had on hand and now have the proper temp from that lower housing. Old stat is dead.

I'll measure the temp on the heater core next time I drive. I took the AC evap box out. A tip from Woods Wagon. It was oily and really dirty where the expansion valve had leaked/seeped over the years. Air flow wouldn't have been great over it.

Anyway, I hit it one time and got 143* F on the heater core. That will probably go up now.
Posted Image

Here's the AC Delete factory box from an '88 DL wagon.
Posted Image

I'm expecting hotter heat now.

Doug




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