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Hitachi adjustments... I know it's all been said b4


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46 replies to this topic

#26 Subaru_dude

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

Alright was forced to use cardboard intake gaskets coated in a fairly thin layer of ultra grey. Made sure both surfaces were clean and flat... so we should be good to go. Tomorrow, I'll let you guys know how it runs. Please wish me luck, pray for me, cross your fingers, do a mana... whatever. I want this car back on the road!!! :headbang:

#27 Subaru_dude

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:26 PM

Ok started it today, no difference. Sprayed as many places as I could think with brake cleaner and as usual, can't find the leak. Here's some pics...

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#28 ferox

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

Have you replaced the flywheel? If not you could find TDC on the #1 piston and put a little paint mark on the current flywheel to indicate TDC and estimate 8 degrees BTDC from there.

With the rpms you have going, if the vac advance is connected then it is effecting the timing. Also, make sure it's connected to ported vacuum, like one of the ports you have capped on the front of the carb in your last picture.

Also, since your rpms are high you might try something other than brake cleaner that is petroleum based that will slow the rpms instead of increase it. Since your engine is so crusty, spraying some WD40 around might do the trick and wouldn't really make the engine bay crustier from the looks of it. You really shouldn't use brake cleaner anyway for this purpose, but I have done it myself so I won't lecture.

Did you check the brake booster vac line? I did not see it featured in the pictures.

If you pull the engine to replace the flywheel, might suggest cleaning up the engine a bit...personal preference. I find it more difficult to diagnose and work on crusty engines. And definitely get real Subaru intake manifold gaskets when you get a chance.

What do you have for a base gasket?

All that rust on those carb linkages is not a good sign. It seems like the main problem is outside of the carb itself, but regardless of whether that carb is a Hitachi, it looks craptastic. The throttle shaft and bushings are undoubtedly junk. I would definitely recommend a Weber or at least a Hitachi in better condition.

Edited by ferox, 22 November 2012 - 06:40 PM.


#29 Subaru_dude

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:01 PM

Have you replaced the flywheel? If not you could find TDC on the #1 piston and put a little paint mark on the current flywheel to indicate TDC and estimate 8 degrees BTDC from there.

With the rpms you have going, if the vac advance is connected then it is effecting the timing. Also, make sure it's connected to ported vacuum, like one of the ports you have capped on the front of the carb in your last picture.

Also, since your rpms are high you might try something other than brake cleaner that is petroleum based that will slow the rpms instead of increase it. Since your engine is so crusty, spraying some WD40 around might do the trick and wouldn't really make the engine bay crustier from the looks of it. You really shouldn't use brake cleaner anyway for this purpose, but I have done it myself so I won't lecture.

Did you check the brake booster vac line? I did not see it featured in the pictures.

If you pull the engine to replace the flywheel, might suggest cleaning up the engine a bit...personal preference. I find it more difficult to diagnose and work on crusty engines. And definitely get real Subaru intake manifold gaskets when you get a chance.

What do you have for a base gasket?

All that rust on those carb linkages is not a good sign. It seems like the main problem is outside of the carb itself, but regardless of whether that carb is a Hitachi, it looks craptastic. The throttle shaft and bushings are undoubtedly junk. I would definitely recommend a Weber or at least a Hitachi in better condition.


Brake booster is connected and clamped. As for engine crustiness, you should have seen it before we CLEANED IT UP hahaha. It's very clean compared to what it was before. The engine that came out was TOTALLY caked.

Will try WD40 tomorrow and swap the vacuum advance to the carb. I'm really too broke to own an old Subaru right now, I can't afford anything for it. Base gasket is still there, we coated it in Ultra Grey when we re-installed.

I'll try the TDC trick... I thought about trying that but wasn't sure how easy it was to eyeball the piston to find TDC. Hell, the timing could be the root of my problems for all I know. Thanks for the input.

#30 ferox

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:21 AM

Brake booster is connected and clamped

What I meant was, did you check it for vacuum leaks.

Base gasket is still there, we coated it in Ultra Grey when we re-installed.

I don't think even Ultra Grey RTV holds up to gasoline. You will probably have to change that out later.

#31 djellum

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:47 PM

3 things to check. might be slightly different since its an EA81.

1) look at the last picture. there are 2 plugged vacuum ports in the front and 1 plugged port at the top (metering port I think is what its called). just to the left under the choke but above the idle screw there may be a 3rd vacuum port. check and make sure its plugged if its there.

2) vacuum advance should be hooked to ported vacuum. if you dont have it hooked to one of the 2 vacuum ports in picture 4, its probably hooked up to manifold vacuum and you dont want that. the system isnt set up like a small block where that is possible without some other changes in the disty.

3) in the third picture it looks like you have the bowl vent blocked off with a bolt. this will F up the whole situation. I think the upper port in the rear should be blocked off and the large hose with the bolt in it should go to the charcoal canister or be restricted a little but not plugged. the upper port by the fuel lines was part of the system that included the TVV and others. it looks like you may have routed it to the charcoal canister. this can cause multiple levels of problems since the bowl vent cant be restricted and your sucking air and possibly fuel into the metering port from the canister.

question - is your charcoal canister still hooked up fully? im guessing not since the bowl vent isnt going to it. either fully pull it, or fully hook it up, dont go halfway or it wont work right.

heres a link to a post with some decent pictures. you can see how the fuel line and return line run in the back, and that both the other ports on the back and top are part of the system you removed and need to be plugged. the large line in the front that goes by the alternator is the bowl vent. the bowl vent regulates the pressure in your carburetor so that there is not a vacuum or high pressure situation. it needs to be open and restricted enough not to cause problems either direction.

http://www.ultimates...ad.php?t=118017

#32 88wacaroo

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:47 AM

Brake booster is connected and clamped. As for engine crustiness, you should have seen it before we CLEANED IT UP hahaha. It's very clean compared to what it was before. The engine that came out was TOTALLY caked.

Will try WD40 tomorrow and swap the vacuum advance to the carb. I'm really too broke to own an old Subaru right now, I can't afford anything for it. Base gasket is still there, we coated it in Ultra Grey when we re-installed.

I'll try the TDC trick... I thought about trying that but wasn't sure how easy it was to eyeball the piston to find TDC. Hell, the timing could be the root of my problems for all I know. Thanks for the input.


check. a few things 1st......on your 4th pic shows the frt.vac tubes on bottom capped off. The 1 on lft.[pass.side] goes to vac ad. on dist. The 1 on rt.[drv.side] goes to egr valve. Next check. that plugged off tube[big 1] on egr and check.to see if it is broken-cracked, U will have to take it off to check. If it"s bad it will break-[ the heat from egr makes this real brittle ]! 1 more check.- 1 more screw 2 check.-HAHA-the FUN 1-it"s the high idle screw 4 the choke....IT"S buried at the bott. of the carb. on thrott.side-if it"s screwed to tight it keep"s the idle stop off of the idle screw.....Bowl vent tube needs restricted not plugged.... check all vac. lines AGAIN-pain....AND OH YEAH THE GOOD thing about OLD SUBIES? They don"t cost alot to fix! It"s more patience and preserverence than $$$..Intake gaskets only cost $8.00,carb kit $20-30.... running right 26-30mpg-Priceless!!! Good luck!!!!!

Edited by 88wacaroo, 25 November 2012 - 12:51 AM.


#33 Subaru_dude

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:36 PM

Alright, I "properly" adjusted the timing today. Swapped vacuum advance to the passenger port on front of carb and tried unhooking the other plugs while it was running. Went through EVERY single plug and it either acted worse, or made no difference. Keep in mind that I let it warm up and completely unhooked the choke, which still leaves it idling awfully high.

I'm at a complete loss... I'm just going to assume these carbs won't run without the canister (I had an EA82 that I stripped and left the canister, and it ran fine). There's nothing else I can do with this thing, they just can't be de-emissioned. I'm going to the JY tomorrow to grab the SPFI stuff and get RIGHT on that and say goodbye to carb problems FOREVER!!!! (hopefully)...

#34 djellum

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:11 PM

SPFI or replacing the carb with a weber are very common and both good ways to go.

I can assure you that it will run without the charcoal canister, but you have to know a bit about the individual systems you are bypassing to make it work. if you have access to SPFI or webers its a good way to go, as long as your sure its the carb.

#35 88wacaroo

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:52 AM

Alright, I "properly" adjusted the timing today. Swapped vacuum advance to the passenger port on front of carb and tried unhooking the other plugs while it was running. Went through EVERY single plug and it either acted worse, or made no difference. Keep in mind that I let it warm up and completely unhooked the choke, which still leaves it idling awfully high.

I'm at a complete loss... I'm just going to assume these carbs won't run without the canister (I had an EA82 that I stripped and left the canister, and it ran fine). There's nothing else I can do with this thing, they just can't be de-emissioned. I'm going to the JY tomorrow to grab the SPFI stuff and get RIGHT on that and say goodbye to carb problems FOREVER!!!! (hopefully)...

Like I said in my last comment-if the screw for the choke is screwed in too much it will never idle low[right]

#36 Subaru_dude

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:08 AM

Like I said in my last comment-if the screw for the choke is screwed in too much it will never idle low[right]


It's not touching the linkage at all.

And I almost forgot to mention the port near the idle adjust screw is non-existent. The original carb has it though. And I have no idea if it's the carb or not... but I don't think the engine itself would have a vacuum leak right? I'm ASSUMING it's either the intake or carb. This engine when it was in the Brat I pulled it out of certainly didn't have any issues with running at all. And I'll have to scrounge together some of the spfi stuff... hoping I can source some of the stuff for SUPER cheap, I can't afford to get it all from the jy.

#37 Subaru_dude

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

Well went to grab wiring from an '88 at the junkyard. Well, it's been in a barn with the windows down for a few years and the wiring under the dash is pretty well chewed up. Luckily there was an '87 there that had spfi but GUESS WHAT... somebody decided to cut all the wiring under the hood. I grabbed what I could which was probably a waste of moneyl (definitely a waste of money), so I'm still on the lookout for a spfi car I can grab all the parts from. I'm broke, so it'll be a while. In the mean time, it is for sale at $1000obo. $225 for the known running hydro lifter EA81 motor but I'm NOT SHIPPING. I will forge ahead with the spfi swap and if I get done, then so be it. If not and there's no interest it's getting crushed.

#38 djellum

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:37 AM

try to find a cheap weber or holly 5200 from the Junkyard. theres a list on this site of older fords that had them. you can buy or make an adaptor and throw it on easier than setting up a spfi.

im guessing that would be the cheapest option, and the weber is much simpler, though i still maintain that without knowing what is actually wrong you may be dissapointed with either.

#39 ivans imports

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

i rebuilt a carb yesterday on a 86 gl std the antibackfire vacume line that comes off the egr valve was pluged with carbon and had colapsed in the air filletr box cleaned the line resealed the carb gaskets. Hooked up all the missing lines and worked very good. The timing had been cranked too far to try and get more power set that back to 8. The antibackfire curcit is a very critical part of the workings of the hitachi carbs and mingles with the exhaust syestem so it plugs easyaly most carb problems i see are from thiss curcut and lines being left off or put in wrong places the vacume diagram under the hood is the best info you will get .

#40 Subaru_dude

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

Alright it has a Weber on it now and I cranked it, but it's still doing the same thing so I'm assuming there's a vacuum leak that's not related to the carb. I sprayed WD40 all over the intake and carb (avoiding spraying directly IN the carb) and didn't notice any difference in the way it idled.... BUT it did start smoking white and it didn't smell like coolant. Couldn't quite put my finger on the smell... does wd40 burn white? I tried to light it on fire but it's not even flammable.

Edited by Subaru_dude, 19 January 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#41 ferox

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

Alright was forced to use cardboard intake gaskets coated in a fairly thin layer of ultra grey. Made sure both surfaces were clean and flat... so we should be good to go.


BUT it did start smoking white


Even if you can't smell coolant in the white smoke, quit fooling around with your intake manifold gaskets and get some Subaru ones. White smoke in the exhaust and symptoms of a massive vacuum leak would seem to imply that the cardboard/Ultragrey isn't cutting it.

#42 Subaru_dude

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:12 PM

Even if you can't smell coolant in the white smoke, quit fooling around with your intake manifold gaskets and get some Subaru ones. White smoke in the exhaust and symptoms of a massive vacuum leak would seem to imply that the cardboard/Ultragrey isn't cutting it.


I'm pretty sure it's holding fine. I mean, it didn't leak enough coolant into the cumbustion chamber to smoke white before, and that was with JUST a very thin layer of ultra grey. Besides, can't afford anything until I get a job. I've turned in several applications and am making phone calls, when I get the money I'll worry about it.

#43 silverback

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:47 AM

WD-40 does not burn. They changed the formula.

How did you seal the adapter plate for the Weber?

Throttle plates wet?

Can you pressurize your cooling system?

Do your heater controls work?

#44 silverback

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:28 AM

Did the intake manifold bolts have brackets for the air cleaner housing?
I can't tell from the images if you have removed the brackets. If you have a Weber in place then I assume the brackets are gone. You don't have intake gaskets and 'no crush'. The intake manifold bolts can bottom out very easily without the stock pieces in place. Check the washers under the bolt heads to verify they are not loose. Spray the 6 bolt heads with WD40.
Without gaskets, the 'jethro' approach would be to add washers so that the bolts do not bottom out and you get crush on whatever it is that you have in there until you can make changes.

#45 Subaru_dude

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

Did the intake manifold bolts have brackets for the air cleaner housing?
I can't tell from the images if you have removed the brackets. If you have a Weber in place then I assume the brackets are gone. You don't have intake gaskets and 'no crush'. The intake manifold bolts can bottom out very easily without the stock pieces in place. Check the washers under the bolt heads to verify they are not loose. Spray the 6 bolt heads with WD40.
Without gaskets, the 'jethro' approach would be to add washers so that the bolts do not bottom out and you get crush on whatever it is that you have in there until you can make changes.


I added extra washers to compensate for the possibility of the bolts bottoming out. The brackets are indeed gone. I'm going to let it run a while and see if it smokes white without me spraying anything. And as for sealing the gaskets, I didn't seal them up because my google search seemed to imply it wasn't necessary.

#46 Subaru_dude

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

Update. I pulled the intake and the weber off it's adapter plate. I plugged the hole for the brake booster and the hole for the disty advance (have been switching it between that and the left port on the front of the Weber). I stuffed a rag in one end of the intake, covered the adapter plate with my hand, and blew in the other. No leaks anywhere... BUT the gasket between the carb and the adapter plate was soaked with gas. And as I moved the intake around gas was pouring down into the intake from the carb. I don't remember the hitachi ever seeping gas into the intake... does the carb need a rebuild? I also noticed the butterfly valve hinge hole thingy is WORN out.

#47 silverback

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:09 AM

This adventure is difficult to follow. You have an EA81 and recently put a Weber on it. Weber 32/36 ?? 32/36 has two ports on the front. You may have been hooking up the distributor vacuum advance to the EGR port on the Weber ( smaller diameter tube on front left ). Use the port on the front right. Cap the EGR port on the carb. The EGR is disabled. You capped the control port of the EGR. ??? You removed the tube that connects the head to the EGR supply port. How did you plug the ports in the head and manifold? Both have to be sealed off.
Ultra Grey/silicones are not resistant to gasoline. Use new gaskets everywhere despite what Mr Google says. Sealant helps also.
Did you remove the spark plugs to determine if one set of heads is drastically different than the other ( leak on driver side versus passenger side)? Visually inspect tops of pistons for carbon or shiny appearance?
Did you spray (WD 40) the head and manifold at the disconnected EGR ports when the engine was running? Rear side of the manifold?
Check the 6 manifold bolts to see if they bottomed out.
Hopefully, you will be able to re-install carefully and start another troubleshooting series and find happiness.




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