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PLEASE HELP!! Body wiring issue on 93 Loyale!


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38 replies to this topic

#1 Doodlebug

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:34 PM

I've spent days trying to figure out why the radio doesn't have enough power. I've torn apart the instrument panel and dash some to access the wires better.

As much as I know is the switched 12v power wire is Red/Green. It's joins several other Red/Green wires a few inches behind the radio, but after that I can't gain access enough to follow it. (The dash is still attached somewhere towards the top side. I can lift it up some, but not much. The 3 large bolts along the top of the dash are out.)

There is NO Red/Green wire in the back of the fuse panel. And I can't find any fuses anywhere else. My Chilton's manual isn't helpful with this problem AT ALL.

So, here's my questions, does the Red/Green power wire change colors before getting back to the fuse panel? Or can I just forget that power source and wire in the stereo directly from the battery with an in-line 15A fuse?

I'd really like to know how to get the power source fixed because the other things that small wire is supplying power to will be having issues too. Whatever those are. But I have yet to find any wiring help on this.

#2 rxleone

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:38 PM

The wire probably switches colour where it joins the ignition switch. There is a fuse in the board inside the car, 15A IIRC. Should be 3rd along from the top from the left, but I'm used to working on JDM cars so this may differ for you.

You can wire it direct from battery, but it defeats the purpose of having a switched power source, and it's not really a good idea to have your radio on while cranking.

Is the accessory/"always on" power putting out 12V?

#3 crazyman03

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:49 PM

http://www.the12volt...etail/1987.html

I'd just wire it directly to the battery - it'd save you a TON of headache. There isnt anything special about the wire.

Usually, the stereo has a fuse built into it, if not (or just to be safe anyway), buy a "inline" fuse with at least a 10-15a fuse in it. Then just run the wire to either the battery, or there's a white 8ga(ish) wire @ the key that is constant - Its thick gauge so you'll either need to find a big wire tap clip, or figure something out.

Remember, verify your wires before tapping!


-Justin

#4 crazyman03

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:55 PM

...
As much as I know is the switched 12v power wire is Red/Green. It's joins several other Red/Green wires a few inches behind the radio, but after that I can't gain access enough to follow it. (The dash is still attached somewhere towards the top side. I can lift it up some, but not much. The 3 large bolts along the top of the dash are out.)

There is NO Red/Green wire in the back of the fuse panel. And I can't find any fuses anywhere else. My Chilton's manual isn't helpful with this problem AT ALL.


.. IIRC, the RED/GRN wire is a constant +12 volt. So, if your problem is that your radio isnt remembering anything (bad clock, no presets, etc) then thats you're problem right there - You've got your wires backwards.

There's a little yellow/blue wire (it usually falls down back and is on the right dont quote me on the colors because its been a while). It has a plug that you might've likley overlooked... THATS your switched power. again, use a DMM to verify your power..


-Justin

#5 Cougar

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

My info for an '88 model shows the power wire is blue/yellow for the radio (good memory Justin). Fuse 13 provides power to the radio. Verify power is getting to that fuse. If it isn't then check the ACC position of the ignition switch, it may be faulty. Fuses 14,15, and 16 also come from the ACC position so if they have low voltage on them then for sure the switch or the wiring from it has a problem.

Ebay is a good place to find factory service manuals at a good price. You should at least try to purchase the wiring manual for your car. There is no substitute for them.

Edited by Cougar, 18 November 2012 - 05:25 PM.


#6 rxleone

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

.. IIRC, the RED/GRN wire is a constant +12 volt. So, if your problem is that your radio isnt remembering anything (bad clock, no presets, etc) then thats you're problem right there - You've got your wires backwards.

There's a little yellow/blue wire (it usually falls down back and is on the right dont quote me on the colors because its been a while). It has a plug that you might've likley overlooked... THATS your switched power. again, use a DMM to verify your power..


-Justin


You're dead right, its listed in the link you posted above. You need two wires, the constant/accessory wire (red/green) supplies power at all times so your radio can remember settings, saved radio stations, etc, and is pretty much the power for the radio. The switched 12v (blue/yellow) basically just tells the radio when to turn on/off.

#7 Gloyale

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:13 PM

Careful.....I believe that it's the interior lighting wires that are Red/Green.

Green wire by itself is Battery volts.

Ig. switch is the Blue/yellow.

You need to seperate the front and rear speaker wiring. This is what I recommend.

Run new speaker wire to the front speakers (pink2 pole connector in each footwell) Blue is Negative......white or yellow is the positive.

Then hook the back speaker outputs to the wiring behind the radio.

Rear Right + White/blue
Rear Right - Blue/black

Rear Left + Yellow/white
Rear Left - Blue/red

#8 Gloyale

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:17 PM

.. IIRC, the RED/GRN wire is a constant +12 volt.


Red and Red/green wires in the radio connector, and everywhere in the dash almost.......are the lighting wire.

Red 12v
Red/Green --Dimmer control voltage

#9 crazyman03

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

Red and Red/green wires in the radio connector, and everywhere in the dash almost.......are the lighting wire.


agood rule of thumb (And i do this any time i dont have a wire harness to match the car) ALWAYS verify your connections. Key-On, Key-Off, Key-On with parking lights/headlights-on/off. Saves a lot of headache.. especially on older cars.


-Justin

#10 Wayback

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:06 PM

For the radio connector:
Red - illumination power
Red/Green - illumination ground (through dimmer switch)
Green - battery backup
Blue/Yellow - switched power

#11 Doodlebug

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:30 AM

Wow, you guys have been very helpful! :)

I'm not getting 12V on ANY of the wires whether the key is out, or in and on the ON position. And it doesn't matter what combination I have the stereo hooked up to power, it never makes the whine from the CD player and lights up. If I hook up the stereo directly to the battery in the Subaru it powers on. No problem. I ran a separate wire to try to figure out if any one of the power wires is working (with the key in the on position), I tested in many combinations with one of the stereo wires hooked to the battery, and the other hooked to any combination of RED/GRN, RED, BLUE/YLW. Nothing.

All fuses are good. Everything else in the Subaru works. But I haven't checked to make sure power is getting through the fuse. I will do that.

Oh, and the readings I'm getting from the wires are in the MV range. 200MV or less. With the key in the on position.

There's a lot of RED/GRN wires going through out the dash, but they always go behind the dash, where I can't reach, into a huge bundle of wires and I loose it. And believe it or not, there isn't a single RED/GRN wire in the Chilton wiring diagrams for Loyales. If my dad does decide to keep the Subaru, I WILL be getting at least a wiring book for it! They're nice! :-p

I'm going to town today to do a few things, and to pull (at a salvage yard), whatever you call where you adjust the temp in the car. I broke a small important piece when trying to get the dash back together. I hope to be back before dark to work on it more!
When I get back, I will test some fuse locations and get back with some numbers. And the numbers for the specific wires too.

The sooner I head out, the better the chance that I will have daylight to work. Thank you guys SOOOO much for all your help!! I GREATLY appreciate it! :D

Edited by Doodlebug, 19 November 2012 - 10:34 AM.


#12 Cougar

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:54 AM

You're welcome for the help.

The fact that you didn't have voltage on any of the wires would seem to indicate there is a more basic problem with the power distribution system. Check the fusible links and make sure they are making good connection. They are located in the plastic box mounted on the coolant reservoir. Along with checking the links check the connections on the bottom of the panel. Some folks have found bad connections there.

#13 Doodlebug

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

Well, things took longer in town then I thought. I did find what I was looking for at the salvage yard. Yay.

I have to clean a house all day tomorrow, so anymore input from me will have to wait till Wednesday. :( And if my time is demanded elsewhere on Wednesday, it will have to wait until Monday... :-\

I'm anxious to get this figured out. :burnout: Thank you Cougar, for more suggestions. The more, the merrier! :-p

#14 Doodlebug

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:36 PM

Alright, an update.

Battery voltage at start of test: 12.58V (already a bit low from having the key on for a few hours the other day.)

KEY OFF:
1st fuseable link (closest to front of car), GRN: 8.09V
2nd fuseable link, RED: 12.02V
3rd fuseable link, GRN: -9.53V
4th fuseable link, BLK: -0.486V

Radio fuse: 107.5MV

RED/GRN wire: 0.8MV
BLUE/YLW wire: around -120MV
RED wire: 0.8MV

-----------------------------

KEY ON:
Radio fuse: 177.2MV

RED/GRN wire: 2.7MV
BLUE/YLW wire: around -10MV to 50MV
RED wire: 2.6MV

I started to unhook the fuseable links with the key on, and one of the components in the engine bay started clicking, plus the voltage was 0 after unhooking one.

Battery voltage at end of testing: 12.44V
-----------------------------

Does that show anything?

Edited by Doodlebug, 21 November 2012 - 03:31 PM.


#15 Doodlebug

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:34 PM

I'll wait to decide my course of action until you guys say something about the voltage numbers. Thanks!! :)

#16 Cougar

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:15 PM

Well this is pretty easy. All the links should have close to battery voltage on either side of them. If the supply side for them is low then the connection to the battery needs to be checked. You had 12 volts on one of the links so the bottom side of the link panel might have a corrosion problem.

#17 Doodlebug

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:59 PM

Makes sense.

So, I cleaned up the battery posts, and any connections I could. I couldn't figure out how to get the fuseable link side of the one positive cable detached from the box. And the 4 separate wires on the other side were not coming out either. I sure hope it's not a one-unit piece! :banghead:
After getting that cleaned up (it really wasn't bad at all, just evidence of not being touched for a while (dirty not corroded)), I tested the fuseable links again.

1st fuseable link, GRN: 8.27V (closest to front of car)
2nd fuseable link, RED: 12.25V
3rd fuseable link, GRN: 6.8V
4th fuseable link, BLK: 1.4V

All a bit better. :-p

Now I know what direction I need to take for the betterment of the car all around! Even if it doesn't fix the radio problem. I'll be focusing on figuring out how to get that other end of the cable out of the box, and upgrading that wire. But I'm going to have to wait, because I don't want to brake my box. I'll dismantle the fuseable box on a Loyale at the salvage yard. A bit naughty, but helpful! :brow:

THANK YOU Cougar!!! :D

Edited by Doodlebug, 21 November 2012 - 06:03 PM.


#18 Cougar

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:36 AM

You're welcome for the help.

I think the panel is tied to the battery by a single wire. You are seeing 12 volts on one of the links so it appears that wherever the four links are spliced to the battery wire is where the problem is at. You may need to solder the connections.

#19 lmdew

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:05 AM

Remember, with no load the DMM can lie to you. Check out www.brighterideas.com

Dan's book and LoadPro are great.

#20 Cougar

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:08 PM

Remember, with no load the DMM can lie to you.


In this case the meter is showing things as they are. Most of the voltage readings are low. It is when there is a bad connection in a wire connection and the voltage shows normal (12 volts) due to no current flow that you can be fooled into thinking there is no problem with the wiring. There should be 12 volts on all the fusible links. Since there isn't it means there is a connection problem to them.

#21 Fairtax4me

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

You need to unbolt the fuse panel from the fender and the lower cover can be removed. The main power wire in to the fuse box is just held on with a bolt/nut. It could be frayed or corroded, or the branches that go from there to the fuses could be corroded or damaged.

#22 Doodlebug

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

Well, I got a nicer used box in case I broke something. I found that the wires are kept in by little metal tabs on one side of each pin. The big whole 4 pin one has two pins, one on each outside pin.

I also upgraded the lead wire.
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Now the voltage, with battery at 12.45V:
8.13V
12.45V
2.76V
4.76V

Obviously it's ground, or something else along the path, that's the problem.

#23 Cougar

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:11 PM

I don't see how you can get the latest voltage readings unless you are making them on the protested (load) side of the fusible links. That would then mean that 3 of the fusible links are either bad or have bad terminal connection to the new power source. The connector you fixed has to be getting 12 volts to it since one of the links at least has good voltage on it. All of the links should have 12 volts on either side of them with respect to ground.

Just as an observation:
The solder connection you made shows signs of not enough heat being applied to the connection. All of the wire should be covered by a smooth flow of solder, but you most likely won't have trouble with the joint if you leave it as is.

Edited by Cougar, 27 November 2012 - 05:19 PM.


#24 Doodlebug

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:23 PM

Perhaps I'm testing it wrong? :confused: I hold the red tester lead to the battery side of the link, and the black tester lead to the other side of the fuseable link.

I still don't have a good understanding of car electrical. Any electrical for that matter. :o

#25 l75eya

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:32 PM

When I was having issues with my radio wiring in my GL and in the Loyale, I did the same thing in each car. Grab a 12 volt bulb from your car (the dome light will do nicely), attach a good length of wire to the bulb's pos. and neg. contacts.

Ground the negative one to the car, and turn the ignition on. Start touching the positive wire to every wire you have coming out of that harness for the radio.

When the bulb lights up, you have 12 volts! If the bulb shuts off when you turn the key off, voila; you have 12 volts switched!

I wound up running a power wire to my radio though as I couldn't find a constant hot.

Good luck.




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