Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Governor "Apple Core"


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 1990loyale

1990loyale

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Owensboro

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:19 AM

so i have a 1990 Subaru loyale sedan, my original trans diff locked up at 217K, so i got a spare trans from a 85 gl, now at 224K miles the governor in that trans has apple core... i was driving down the road at 45 when it just rev'd up and i lost 3rd gear... first thing i checked the gear and bingo.... needless to say the used transmission did slip going into third a little if you give it throttle... what causes apple coring? i had the car towed home, i have my spare governor from old trans still but i dont wanna put it in if the same thing is gonna happen. any help, thanks in advance.

i have a donor that has a bad motor that is 5-speed i was gonna rebuild it but if its major problem ill just do manual swap.

Edited by 1990loyale, 20 November 2012 - 02:24 AM.


#2 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:08 PM

The drive gear inside the transmission is bad so any governor you install will die shortly from the same ailment.

Better to just get a Legacy to replace the car. Not much point in fixing a Loyale at it's age and mileage.

GD

#3 1990loyale

1990loyale

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Owensboro

Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:50 PM

Well the loyale was my first car ever and it has alot of value to me being it was my uncles car and he has passed on. Ive rebuilt the motor in it and its been repainted so it looks brand new still so i wanna keep it until i pass or it gets wrecked. Lol

#4 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,400 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

The drive gear inside the transmission is bad so any governor you install will die shortly from the same ailment.

Better to just get a Legacy to replace the car. Not much point in fixing a Loyale at it's age and mileage.

GD


Uhh....... replaceing the car is gonna be alot more expensive than tossing an driven gear on the governor and getting back on the road.

That's like getting a sex change because you need a hair cut.


1990 Loyale. A brand new Governer gear from subaru is about $25. Stick one in and get your car back.

It'll be years/ 10's of thousands miles before it may have an issue again.

#5 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:57 PM

Depends on how bad the drive gear inside the transmission is. There are many documented cases where they last only a few hundred miles with a replacement governor.

As for replacing the car - it's an EA82.... I understand if it has sentimental value but that's no reason to torture yourself with 90 HP and ancient technology. Get a Legacy for a daily. Everyone should have one.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 20 November 2012 - 01:01 PM.


#6 moosens

moosens

    Psychotic Subathusiast

  • Members
  • 1,287 posts
  • Bridgeport CT

Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:05 PM

There is an upgrade metal gear that subaru offered. There's currently two governor gears on eBay but the seller didn't get back to me as to whether or not they were the upgrade. I don't have a parts manual to check but if you find them oneBay and get someone to check the p/n you might find the best CHEAP fix.

Good luck! Lots of us here involved in the romance of caring for an old Subaru or two , or three ..... :D

#7 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:46 PM

Wouldn't a '90 Loyale already have a metal gov. gear? This problem was well documented by then. The EA81's were having governor gear failure back in the early 80's.

I believe that's part of the problem - metal driven gear chews up drive gear to the point that any replacement driven gear will be shredded in relatively short order.

But of course he needs to inspect the drive gear to be sure of it's condition before he does anything else.

GD

#8 moosens

moosens

    Psychotic Subathusiast

  • Members
  • 1,287 posts
  • Bridgeport CT

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:13 PM

You could be right. I've been out of the 80's for some time now. Has to be someone here who's had their hands on the late 80's gov's.

#9 1990loyale

1990loyale

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Owensboro

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:29 PM

Wouldn't a '90 Loyale already have a metal gov. gear? This problem was well documented by then. The EA81's were having governor gear failure back in the early 80's.

I believe that's part of the problem - metal driven gear chews up drive gear to the point that any replacement driven gear will be shredded in relatively short order.

But of course he needs to inspect the drive gear to be sure of it's condition before he does anything else.

GD


Well thats the thing, i used a tranny from a 85 after my original ones diff gears blew because i didnt know my seals was leaking. I still have my orignal tranny with a perfectly good governor in it i was gonna swap but i wanted to see what causes it before i put it in and ruined that one. But $25 from subaru, i can deal with that for a 3rd replacement before i do the 5spd swap.

#10 1990loyale

1990loyale

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Owensboro

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:39 PM

Here is a pic of the bad governor...

Posted Image

#11 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:43 PM

Simple solution then - swap the diff from the '85 transmission onto the '90 transmission. They are not that hard to swap around. Then you get the good diff and the transmission with the known good governor and governor drive gear.

GD

#12 MilesFox

MilesFox

    Catch this Fox!

  • Members
  • 10,571 posts
  • Madison/Milwaukee, WI

Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

One could suggest replacing the car, but the practical solution is to swap the 5 spd from the other car if you already have it.

Then get a legacy but have both cars.

#13 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:18 PM

I was just provoking thought.

With Legacy's routinely going for under $1k and often for scrap metal prices there's very little reason to keep a broken EA82 on the road. I can't even justify buying first gen Legacy's to resell. I pass up most second gens as well unless they are later models, really nice cosmetics, and/or low, low miles.

Most people running an EA82 for other than collectible/sentimental reasons could get into a Legacy with a little effort. Parts are easy to find - excellent upgrade paths are available, and cost to maintain them and keep them on the road is actually lower - partly because they are a LOT more reliable..... just all around a superior platform.

Obviously the car means something to him. So great - fix it and park it to preserve it. DRIVE a Legacy - then come here and tell me you don't want one. :-p.

GD

#14 1990loyale

1990loyale

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Owensboro

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

Lol, id love to have a legacy. But where im from its rare to see an old subaru, everyone has new ones. I have the only two old ones ive seen with my loyale and 83 gl sedan. Id like to find a 1st gen turbo legacy.

#15 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,400 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

I was just provoking thought.

With Legacy's routinely going for under $1k and often for scrap metal prices there's very little reason to keep a broken EA82 on the road. I can't even justify buying first gen Legacy's to resell. I pass up most second gens as well unless they are later models, really nice cosmetics, and/or low, low miles.

Most people running an EA82 for other than collectible/sentimental reasons could get into a Legacy with a little effort.


Around here they are plentiful. But any that "ive seen "under 1000" or for scrap price are worth just that. Most need alot of work to get back to a reliable state.

And then consider the OP in this thread is NOT around here.....and first Gen Legs where he's at are likely WORSE than the ones here.

Why isn't OK for this guy to just simply fix his car and drive it? Why is it nesecary for him to buy another car?

#16 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

Around here they are plentiful. But any that "ive seen "under 1000" or for scrap price are worth just that. Most need alot of work to get back to a reliable state.


I have helped dozens of people find Legacy's withe either a few minor issues or simply in need of a reseal and timing belt job for the $1000 neighborhood. I have a '98 with 160k here right now that was $800 and needed tires and alignment.

I just bought a '99 L with 142k that threw a rod for $840. I got an '03 EJ251 for it with 105k for $660.

A few months back I bought a '97 GT that had already been converted to a 2.2 for $900. I swapped out the manifold for an EGR equipped version and drilled/tapped the head for the pipe then had to swap the ECU as the russians had installed one from a '96 that wouldn't pass DEQ.

This last summer I bought a '96 with 115k on it and a bad 5MT for $700. Got a used 5MT for $100, new clutch kit for $160.

Those are just a small cross-section of the cars I buy regularly. You just have to look for the deals. I realize that EA82's are more plentiful in the lower population density (lower income) areas but it's not that hard to travel 100 miles for a big purchase like a car.

My point is not that he shouldn't fix the car - my point is that he has already gone through two transmissions and he could avoid a lot of problems by getting into a more reliable platform for a daily.

GD

#17 1990loyale

1990loyale

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Owensboro

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:22 PM

Ive never had a problem with the engine, ill swear by an EA82 anyday, just not one mated to a 3AT. So therefore the reason why im going to swap with a manual. Ive owned several subarus, anything from ea81, eg33, er27 and the EA82 is the only one that has never needed even a sensor replaced yet others ive had vacuum leaks and more on, never internal damage just small stuff

#18 WoodsWagon

WoodsWagon

    Formerly 91Loyale

  • Members
  • 3,945 posts
  • NH

Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:43 PM

Better to just get a Legacy to replace the car. Not much point in fixing a Loyale at it's age and mileage.

If that's your opinion you probably shouldn't bother posting in the old gen forum and just stick to new gen.

I like the EA82 body cars a lot better than the legacy's. The non-turbo engines aren't powerful, but they're plenty reliable and return decent fuel economy.

If the body is in good shape and it has a good running SPFI engine, the appropriate response is to swap a 5mt into it, not to junk the car due to a bad transmission. If you have a donor car with the 5mt it's a straightforward weekend project to convert over.

With a spare governor on hand it makes sense to toss it in. When/if it goes out again it doesn't cripple the car, you can still make it home. You could even carry your other spare in the glovebox, they're really easy to swap out on the side of the road.

Around here any legacy under $2k is a heap of rusty scrap. Anything pre-2000 is usually too rusty to pass state inspection or the tank/evap lines have rusted out so it throws codes. The 00-04's are rusting out pretty bad too but people still want $4-6k for them.

#19 1990loyale

1990loyale

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Owensboro

Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:48 AM

this is my Loyale, shes in way to good of shape to let her go, im keeping her on the road. ive owned this car for 12 years now. i trust this car before any women. lol

Posted Image

#20 moosens

moosens

    Psychotic Subathusiast

  • Members
  • 1,287 posts
  • Bridgeport CT

Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:46 AM

Yeah , if I'd had one that stayed that nice it's still be under my butt on a daily basis.

My former '87 turbo wagon is about the closest I've gotten to something solid. If you read a current post you'll see it for sale and one guy pointing out rust on the windshield pillar but otherwise that car is truely solid. I'd still be running it if it weren't for serious pressure on parking here at the time.And I was even willing to tough it out with the turbo.

Otherwise its bye bye 80's for me.

I say do it! Re-use , Recycle !! :headbang:

#21 1990loyale

1990loyale

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Owensboro

Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:15 PM

oh im doing it now for sure... i put my gear in from the original trans and after only 15 miles i can see its already trying to start eating this gear.

could it be doing that because 3rd slips when going into gear? its not a major slip, very slight slip, you dont feel it if you drive like a 70 year old, only when you really push down on it. maybe even fluid levels in the trans or diff? or is if just f***ed period?

#22 ShawnW

ShawnW

    Subaru Master Technician

  • Administrator
  • 12,939 posts
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:08 PM

Its gone then. Take apart the front diff assembly like noted above or install a manual trans conversion. 5 speed is only really time consuming to install.

#23 mikaleda

mikaleda

    1000+ member!

  • Members
  • 1,403 posts
  • priest lake, Idaho

Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:39 PM

As much as I hate to agree with gd I found a pristine first gen legacy for 950 needs head gaskets but other than that a very clean reliable car it's worth it being able to have all wheel drive and enough horse power to pass people going up hill. I'm not saying you shouldn't fix your old car but maybe it is time to start looking into a new one.

#24 Quidam

Quidam

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,517 posts
  • USA

Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:29 PM

oh im doing it now for sure... i put my gear in from the original trans and after only 15 miles i can see its already trying to start eating this gear.

could it be doing that because 3rd slips when going into gear? its not a major slip, very slight slip, you dont feel it if you drive like a 70 year old, only when you really push down on it. maybe even fluid levels in the trans or diff? or is if just f***ed period?


Hey, haven't had one apart but the gov gear is driven. The drive gear bushings or bearings goes out, I guess.

On the 2-3 slip, factory checks are L,G,M,J on the car. L=Brake band adjustment. G=Oil pressure check. M=Servo pipe. J=Control valve, in that order.

Off the car "k" Reverse clutch, "r" leak from hydraulic circuit.

"As cor speed increases while traveling in the D (2nd gear) range, the governor pressure grows greater than the spring force of the 2-3 shift valve and the throttle pressure. When this takes place, the 2-3 shift valve moves to apply the line pressure to the reverse clutch and "release" side of the band servo through the line pressure passage."

Doug




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users