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New Ball Joint Question...normal?


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22 replies to this topic

#1 RXJ

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:02 AM

I'm about to install a new Moog ball joint, ordered off ebay.
Tweaking it by hand, it feels really stiff with resistant friction..like a no lubrication thing .
I've never held a new one before...is this normal??

I can see there's a rubber seal surrounding the ball but zero indication of any lube when levering the ball side to side by hand???

beautiful day to do this...happy t-day

anyone?


Wait a minute..am I supposed to fill the new rubber boot with grease???

Edited by RXJ, 22 November 2012 - 09:19 AM.


#2 silverhelme

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:58 AM

Yes it is normal to be a bit stiff when new and no you should not try to fill the boot with grease.

It should have a place for a zerk fitting on the bottom to grease it after you install it. If it doesn't it should be pregreased from the factory.

Ball joints should take about 15 minutes per side. It usually takes me longer to get the jack and tools out than to change it.

#3 RXJ

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:07 AM

many many thanks..that's what i wanted to hear

Ball joints should take about 15 minutes per side. It usually takes me longer to get the jack and tools out than to change it.


i'm planning on 4 hours
:-)

#4 ivans imports

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:56 AM

moog subaru ball joints are not so good very poor fitt and boots are poor fitt get a made in japan one have many problems with moog subaru parts

#5 RXJ

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:12 PM

ivan, i may have to throw this one in if i ever get the old one out...will check the diameter of old one assuming getting it out
going on hour # 2

#6 pressingonward

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

Using a small chisel to spread the slot in the knuckle may help you get the ball joint out (I assume that's what you are struggling with).

The ball joints on my BRAT were so badly rusted in place I had to use an air hammer with a chisel bit to get the ball joints to start spinning in the knuckle, then I walked them out using the air hammer at an angle to spin and "twist" them out. I spent about 6 hours trying to get them out by hand before pulling the knuckles off to take them to a shop where I could use my air hammer.

#7 RXJ

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:20 PM

ok here it is 4 hours later...i'll spare you guys the agonizing details...lets just say i should've have gone for the torch much sooner...

after getting the thing out it should be a sigh of relief to move forward NOT another fight....

IVAN was spot on....the rubber boot supplied by MOOG was not installed on the unit..ya know why CAUSE THEY DON'T ******* FIT!!!!! they're close to the right size but the stuctural wire inside the rubber is just too tight....

no way to push it on by hand, even with a little grease, but a 36 millimeter deep well socket was my light bulb moment...i put the boot over the new ball shaft, lined it up, dropped the whole thing in the deep well socket and tapped on the flat top of the new ball joint (no grease nipple on this)... it worked.... Nirvana...i took it out only to see four stretch tears in the boot..

after four **** hours of struggle get the old one out...i'm pissed


pressingforward..thanks but spreading the knuckle was not much of an issue..she was surely seized and heat did the final trick...after much prying, pounding, tapping, chisle work,




Ivan you are someone to listen to forever.

I feel ripped off...of course they don't install their own boots to the units...

..not like i can get a new one today and it's almost big bird time...

thanks for the warning and info again Ivan..

Edited by RXJ, 22 November 2012 - 02:26 PM.
to edit my language


#8 l75eya

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:58 PM

I know what you mean when you talk about the metal clip that holds the boot on.

I also noticed the grease thing.

I pulled the boot off and greased it. The metal clip was a bit of a pita, but I got it back on.

Also, MOOG parts get no complaints for me.

Installation was great, and the front end is awesome now with all new MOOG ball-joints, tie rods, and tie rod ends.

My .02

#9 Idasho

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:59 PM

I gave up on the MOOG "problem solver" line of parts a LONG time ago. Along with 90% of all "greaseable" joints.

The boots are junk and do not fit properly.

Only sealed joints for me. Ball joints, tie-rod ends, endlinks, ect.

#10 RXJ

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:36 PM

I know what you mean when you talk about the metal clip that holds the boot on.

I also noticed the grease thing.

I pulled the boot off and greased it. The metal clip was a bit of a pita, but I got it back on.

Also, MOOG parts get no complaints for me.

Installation was great, and the front end is awesome now with all new MOOG ball-joints, tie rods, and tie rod ends.

My .02


**wait a minute here I75...you say you took your boot off and greased it...are you saying your new moog ball joint came, out of the box, with the boot already assembled to the shaft/ball??....and you took it off and greased it?

If this were the case today, boot already installed, there would prob be no further issues...then again, Ivan suggests there are more issues than just the fit of the boot...I no longer second guess Ivan.

I respect your input, I75 but....

i'm still pissed

#11 AKghandi

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

I don't remember if the BJ I replaced was MOOG but I do remember the metal ring on the boot being a pita. I also don't remember how I got it back on but I did. And it was very stiff compared to the one that was on there. The BJ wasn't bad but I had to replace it, to replace my knuckle because of a stripped BJ pinch bolt.

And hey at least you didn't have to deal with a stuck BJ took me 5 hrs, various tools and torches, a few chicken sacrifices, and some hope to get mine out of the control arm.:lol: took me 10 minutes after that..

#12 RXJ

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:15 AM

And hey at least you didn't have to deal with a stuck BJ took me 5 hrs, various tools and torches, a few chicken sacrifices, and some hope to get mine out of the control arm.:lol: took me 10 minutes after that..


I DID deal with a stuck ball joint..I spared you guys the details cause I was more pissed off at MOOG than re-living the previous struggle...... It took three hours of fighting before finally developing a leverage system that evetntually "popped" the ball housing and shaft out of the knuckle......that should have been the sigh of victory right there.....but NOOOOooooooo.....cause the ****** ball shaft was still seized, seemingly welded, to the the pivot arm......where this operation should have had me just popping that thing out with a blow on the bottom of the threaded shaft and then moving onto the 10 MINUTE replacement, I was now confronted with the next stage of ******struggle.... I beat, devised a push/puller, beat more...then finally put a heat torch on it...took a while but the heat freed it up along with some more tapping.....should have been the last of my struggle....this was now hour 4
To move onto a MOOG system and lose the battle was just adding insult to injury...it shouldn't have been like that...it didn't have to be...why the ****** don't they have their boots installed right out of the box???

sorry..I'm still venting.....heading down to the local automart now....

#13 Numbchux

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:57 AM

Moog is basically just a distributor. You can easily get 2 boxes, with the same part numbers on them, with 2 different manufacturers' parts in them.


That said, I've had great experiences with them. Basically all I use, although I don't get them on ebay :-p

The boot should absolutely come pre-installed. It's supposed to be an extremely tight fit, because they're not supposed to come off.



And yes, a ball joint that you can move around by hand is junk. New ones should be very stiff. Same goes for tie rod ends.



And no, they rarely pop out of the control arm easily. I've learned the hard way. Undo the nut on the bottom, and use your leverage system to break it free from the control arm first. Then put it back, thread the nut on hand-tight, and start over to pull it out of the knuckle.

Also, (in case you didn't figure this out, although I suspect you did) disconnecting the sway bar is extremely helpful. Don't want any more force on the control arm then you have to.

Edited by Numbchux, 23 November 2012 - 08:00 AM.


#14 RXJ

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:36 AM

^^ thanks..yeah i released the sway bar as a first step...seems like a must..
I like your step of freeing the threaded shaft from the control arm right off the bat....mine would prob still need heat..perhaps not with a long enough lever though

I have a new ball joint coming early this afternoon WITH boot already installed...

sending my ebay purchase back to seller WITH the boot installed..it's tight as ****, not coming off.... now comes with four pre-stretched tears/rips just beneath the "underwire".....yeah i'm gonna complain, maybe get a refund...maybe.

#15 ivans imports

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

I'm sorry but moog realy droped the ball on thiss one have been there with moog parts over 100 times and have never sucsessfuly been able to install that boot. Even with the whole shop at my dissposal press and all. Beck arndy parts seem to fitt better.And even a dealer ball joint is fairly cheap

#16 RXJ

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

^^

I love you man
:-))


well.. not in that kinda way

Edited by RXJ, 23 November 2012 - 12:27 PM.


#17 mikaleda

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:21 PM

I use raybestos ball joints they cost thirteen bucks I have never had any problems with them

#18 88wacaroo

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:55 PM

I use raybestos ball joints they cost thirteen bucks I have never had any problems with them

I like using fact. subie. parts for that stuff, it"s just good! Some stuff is $$$$$ but most is cheap$.:brow:

#19 RXJ

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:58 PM

all's well, the new one went in easily...drawing a blank on the name for the moment but took pics comparing the Moog with boot to the new one with boot...what a difference in quality...my own mistake for not researching before pulling the trigger....buying on ebay saved me from driving around plus gas was being rationed at the time due to storm Sandy
... screwed myself in the end though and the initial $ didn't stay local..though I did correct that..
will post some pics for the hell of it later on...thanks for the info

#20 ferox

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:01 AM

I use raybestos ball joints they cost thirteen bucks I have never had any problems with them


+1 on Raybestos, although I go for the professional grade which are ~$30 rather than the service grade. Outstanding quality.

#21 ivans imports

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:01 PM

never herd of raybestos ball joints not avalabble round theese parts

#22 mikaleda

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:18 PM

Probably not available in canada

#23 RXJ

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:02 PM

well i finally uploaded some pics..
i did get pissed off and vented here a bit here....sorry.. :-)

the one showing all kinds of quality in the boot department is an MRC that NAPA ordered for me $18.37
the MOOG, the original order thru ebay...yeah yeah i screwed myself $30 something..
Posted Image


in this pic, i finally got the boot on by slipping the shaft and rubber into a 36mm deep well socket then tapping the flat top of the MOOG.
...I can't tell you how pissed off I was when taking it out of the socket after four hours of fighting with the removal of the old stuff.....oh wait..I already did :-)
Posted Image




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