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5 speed noisy when warmed


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17 replies to this topic

#1 foxgap

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:42 AM

car is a 96 Outback 2.2 5 speed 192,000 miles on it. When the trans is cold, I keep the garage at 50 degrees in the winter, the trans is pretty quiet. After say 5 miles the trans is now warmed up and starts to get a bit noisier. The local Sube repair shop says it is just the internals making noise and I should put in Redline 75w-90ns and that should quiet it down. I pulled the dipstick and the oil smells like good old gear oil and I have no idea when it was changed last. It is clear and not cruddy. Owners manual shows only one dipstick for the trans and diff and says to put in 3.7 quarts of fluid so I gather the trans and diff share the fluid. When I searched the forum Redline comes highly recommended so I will be doing that as soon as I can find a place to get it around here. Amazon is my other option. One other thing I found during the search was that a rear bearing goes out on these trans, cheap fix with the trans out, should this be a maint. item when the trans is out for a clutch?

Your opinions please.

Mark

#2 Fairtax4me

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:01 AM

The Input shaft double roller bearing is a very common failure part on these transmissions, and it usually starts to exhibit signs of failure around 175-200k miles. Check the color of your fluid on the dipstick against a white rag/paper towel. The fluid will have a grey tint if the bearing is starting to fail.
New gear oil will not prevent failure but it can delay it.

The most obvious sign of a bad input bearing is to listen carefully to the sound with the engine running, trans in neutral. Push the clutch pedal down, the sound should go away. Release the pedal and the sound will return.

This will also produce a whining or thumping sound that increases with engine speed when driving. Usually most evident in 1st and 2nd gear. The noise will also change on acceleration or deceleration.

If your synchronizers are in good shape replacing the bearing is a good idea, but it can't be done without some big tools or a press. Somewhere here I have a picture of the 16" jaw puller I used to remove one of these bearings, and that still barely did it. It was a LOT of work to hold the puller still and turn the forcing screw at the same time. A press would be ideal.

#3 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:39 PM

If you change the bearing order one for a '94 Legacy Turbo 5MT. It's about the same price but is a 10-ball bearing instead of the stock 6-ball. It's usually not that hard to get the bearing off - a bearing seperator and a press or an H puller and some all-thread will do the trick without much fuss. Installation only requires a hammer and a piece of pipe to engage the inner race.

The Redline is *ok*. But not as good as the Subaru Extra-S. You can get Extra-S through some dealers that will fill a gallon jug if you bring your own. Others you have to buy the 20L drum. There are also web sites that offer it in Liters though the cost is much higher. When bought in the 20L drum the cost per liter is typically less than Redline but you have to buy 5 transmissions worth at about $140 for the drum. You can split it with some friends, etc if you go that route.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 30 November 2012 - 12:42 PM.


#4 foxgap

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

Fairtax, that is what the trans is starting to sound like. Just started to hear the noise so I am hoping I can get some more life out of it, maybe till spring at least. The bearing GD recommended will be the one I will put in.

Thanks for your opinions, you all answered the questions I needed to make a good judgment on this car.

Mark

Edited by foxgap, 30 November 2012 - 07:10 PM.


#5 Fairtax4me

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

My 96 was making the same noise when I got it at 165k. Trans made it to 190k and it could have gone longer but the bearing was making so much racket I couldn't deal with it anymore.

#6 wentz912

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:59 PM

Is this the noise I'm hearing in my car (96 Legacy Brighton Wagon)? Can hear it "whom whom whom whom whom whom whom" -ing going down the road, and the noise increases/decreases in direct correlation to my road speed. Thought it was brakes at first since the noise was in tune with the pulse I felt at the pedal. Replaced rotors and pads, wheel bearings still feel tight, and the pedal pulse is gone but the noise remains!

#7 Fairtax4me

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:17 AM

Probably a wheel bearing or tire noise in your case. These don't show much if any play until the bearing is completely shot.
Uneven tire wear will cause noise of a similar fashion.

#8 wentz912

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:02 PM

I ruled out the tires by replacing all four with brand new ones. I also noticed the noise doesn't change any when I'm coasting or under power. Clutch in or out. Nothing changes the noise except road speed and that just makes the frequency of the noise different. REALLY hoping it's just a wheel bearing.

#9 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:19 PM

I ruled out the tires by replacing all four with brand new ones. I also noticed the noise doesn't change any when I'm coasting or under power. Clutch in or out. Nothing changes the noise except road speed and that just makes the frequency of the noise different. REALLY hoping it's just a wheel bearing.



does it change turning/sweeping left vs right? sometimes the change in load while turning will make the intensity of the sound vary in a bearing.

do you have a remote infrared thermometer? sometimes (not always) a bad wheel bearing will be 10-20 degrees warmer than it's companion on the other side. Try to measure immediately after stopping. (dragging brakes could warm up a wheel too.)

#10 wentz912

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

Both front calipers were in good shape. Haven't felt any weird heat issues, have been trying the back of my hand on the wheel every time I stop after driving a bit. No change that I can hear during turns either. Wondering if it's possible worn parts in the rear too. Guess I'll see if it goes away when I swap rear hubs/knuckles to my disk brake stuff before I go spend money on front wheel bearings.

#11 foxgap

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:54 AM

The RedLine 75w90NS went in last night. VERY easy job to do and I have noticed an improvement already. Trans was quieter, seemed to shift smother. I'll get more imput when the girlfriend gets home from work tonight after beating it across the mountain to Stroudsburg where she works. Got to love those 5 speeds for that kind of driving. I did find about a 1/4 inch of goop/shavings on the magnet of the drain plug so this will probably be a just a bandaid fix until either I find another trans or get the bearing replaced in this one. I did find a link to a step by step relacement of the bearing on another forum, but I am not sure I am up to doing the job without making a real mess of it. I'm going to call Weddes Subaru to ask if they will do the job when it comes to that....

Opinions?

Mark

#12 the_bard

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:30 AM

I'm going through something similar with my Baja right now; odds are some bearing(s) is shot in the transmission (the rear diff is also suspect). My plan is to drive it three hours away hoping the transmission holds up for the trip to the garage I plan on working in. There's a local "Pick a Part" or "U Pull It" yard; transmission runs for $125 (core included), rear diff's for $60. I plan on yanking one or two depending on the condition, weather, and how long it takes to pull them.

That way, I have options. I'll probably slap the used transmission and rear diff in, then take a look at the innards of the original transmission and rear diff. I bet you saw the same thread I did, detailing the operation. If rebuilding it works, great! I've got backup in case the used one fails at some point down the road. If not, I got to take a transmission apart. Yay! ;oD

You aren't too from Allentown, looks like. Harry's is down that way, if I remember right; http://www.wegotused.com/

#13 Fairtax4me

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:33 AM

Don't be too worried about longevity in the short term. These usually go about 30k miles making noise before you get real trouble from the mainshaft bearing.

#14 foxgap

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

Don't be too worried about longevity in the short term. These usually go about 30k miles making noise before you get real trouble from the mainshaft bearing.



Heck by that time the quaters might fall off from rot.

#15 Ricearu

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:06 PM

my 90 legacy did the same thing. I put 38k on it, sold it to my buddy, and he has been driving it 40+ miles per day since then, that was in march :( I miss that car, but it's still kickin. As soon as it made the noise, I changed the fluid, then 20k after that and he has changed it once also at 20k after the last one.

keep the fluid clean, keep the bearing longer!

#16 987687

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:59 AM

It will most likely get to the point where it's annoyingly loud and doesn't shift right before it blows up. My GL's old transmission made horrible screaming and grumbling noises. Even at idle. It finally bothered me to the point where I replaced it.
Same with a failing rear diff. I had one that was making horrific noise. It annoyed me to the point of replacing it before it even looked bad inside.

#17 l75eya

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:33 PM

It will most likely get to the point where it's annoyingly loud and doesn't shift right before it blows up. My GL's old transmission made horrible screaming and grumbling noises. Even at idle. It finally bothered me to the point where I replaced it.
Same with a failing rear diff. I had one that was making horrific noise. It annoyed me to the point of replacing it before it even looked bad inside.


Pretty sure that's where my GL is currently. I wonder if it's also a bearing noise in mine. It's quite a racket and it can clearly be heard coming from the back end of the transmission. I'm at about 10k into it with the noise. Flushed out and refilled with cheap-o gear oil last week. Will empty it and refill with something better later on down the road. Wonder how long it is going to hold..:horse:

#18 987687

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:01 PM

I wouldn't waste more gear oil on it. You're not going to make it better. If it does it at idle in neutral, push the clutch in. If it stops, it's the input beraing.




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