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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Dowside to drilling the hubs


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19 replies to this topic

#1 spazomatic

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

So a while back I had a machine shop alt my hubs to accept 6 lug wheels. I still think this is the better way to fit 6 lug wheels....anyways, so im driving along, not hard, just cruisin and i start to feel a shudder, then a light banging, and then the RPMs go up but im slowing down. Crap. Pull to the side of the road, step outside, put it in gear, ease out the clutch and watch the exle retaining nut turn within the hub! Yahoo. Hubs are splineless. Put it in 4wd and drove home.
Went to a boneyard sunday and grabbed a pair for 25 bucks.
But now i have to wait a couple days for the machine shop (and 100 bucks) before i can put it together! Ugh

#2 herb

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:56 PM

that's curious, why would the hub redrill cause this? sorry if it seems like a silly question, but I'm looking into the 6lug redrill myself and weighing the pros/cons very carefully considering it's my daily driver.

#3 Uberoo

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:04 PM

the downside is that IF your hub strips out you need a new hub and machine shop time to get you going again.

#4 capn_r

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

that's curious, why would the hub redrill cause this?

It wouldn't. Stripping the splines would be due to a loose axle nut that was possibly caused by incorrect assembly of the washers or else the nut wasn't tightened sufficiently when it was installed. The redrilling wouldn't be the cause.

#5 Subruise

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:18 PM

.........and dont forget the cone washer was probably boogered. :horse:

#6 Gloyale

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:05 AM

Bummer.

I've had a few stripped hubs too. Often a tightening will get you a few more miles.

On the other hand, I have to say, I've never had a lick of problem from re-drilled rims. :grin:

#7 spazomatic

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:30 AM

the downside is that IF your hub strips out you need a new hub and machine shop time to get you going again.


That. And for you other guys, it had been assembled properly, with good parts.
I suppose it couldve been loose, i hadnt checked it in a while. Hmmm note to self; check those more often

#8 ivans imports

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:36 AM

my 79 wagon uses 4 bolts with 6 bolt rims for 12 years no problems and its 250 + hp

#9 spazomatic

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:25 PM

my 79 wagon uses 4 bolts with 6 bolt rims for 12 years no problems and its 250 + hp


Ok...Congratulations? Its just personal preference. Structurally speaking, either way works. Just thought id post this "downside" to drilling the hubs; since im usually a proponent of it. :horse:

#10 Uberoo

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:41 AM

drilled rim: often times the drilled area of the steel wheel will be a fairly strong spot, usually 1/4" steel or better.Downside: looks bad, tire shops may not mount tires,can only use steel wheels.

Drilled hub: looks nicer, can use aluminum wheels. Downside: the extra holes are drilled where the hub is weakest due to the thin metal but the addition of the two more studs negates that loss of strength.

Drilling the rim means drilling something cheap and available so if you eff it up its not bad.Not to mention has less of a chance to mess it up anyway.Good Hubs can get a bit scarce sometimes.

#11 ivans imports

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:24 AM

drilling the hub looks to me like it whould make it weaker

#12 spazomatic

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 07:27 AM

drilling the hub looks to me like it whould make it weaker


It kinda does to me, too. But i kick the crap out of this thing, and its held up, so i quit worrying about it.

#13 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:09 PM

Why not just drill them yourself?

I've done several sets and if done properly they are no more weaker than they were before. I always weld up and grind down the area where I'm going to be adding the holes for the studs. And weld up the two unused holes.

GD

#14 spazomatic

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

Why not just drill them yourself?

I've done several sets and if done properly they are no more weaker than they were before. I always weld up and grind down the area where I'm going to be adding the holes for the studs. And weld up the two unused holes.

GD


Yeah, i know. Drilling is easy. I even went and tracked down and purchased the proper size drills to do it. I did the first hub years ago, but then when i went to create a flush spot on the rear for the new studs to set, i just didnt care for it. No matter how careful i was, i just couldnt get a "true" seat with the tools i had ( i dont have a milling machine) And i figured if there are high spots on the seat, then the stud itself will be made weaker by not having a uniform surface to rest against. In my thinking, that could lead to broken studs at worst, or wobbly studs at a minimum. And those pressure points could be a cause of a fractured hub, too....i really do drive this poor car like its stolen, and i dont wanna lose a wheel.
Instead of welding up the old holes, i just cut the original studs off flush. Fills the hole nicely, and i dont hafta then worry about metallurgical properties being altered by the heat of a weld.
$100 to have a pro machine a pair of hubs is well worth the worrying i wont do over it, ya know?
Now in a pinch, post armageddon...i could do this mod myself easily. :)
P.S.
My concerns only apply to the frontend. The rear is, in fact, a piece of cake since it's flat on the backside.
Carry on!

Edited by spazomatic, 03 January 2013 - 11:23 PM.


#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:07 AM

It's just not an issue in the real world. I'm sure they are pretty but your fears are unfounded. There's a Brat in my garage that ran three rally-x seasons on poorly drilled and badly welded (not my work) 6 lug hubs - last season it was AWD and is sporting a high comp. 2.5 pushing about 180 HP. Not a single failure ever occurred. The whole design is overbuilt and cracked hubs just don't happen.

Also - when I do them I just weld the stud in place. That pretty much makes the seating against the back of the hub a non-issue. I've done it without before but over time they will work loose and spin since the splines were not broached but just formed from pressing in the studs.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 04 January 2013 - 01:10 AM.


#16 spazomatic

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

Arent the hubs cast iron? If so, Do you use a high nickel welding rod when welding?
Ay heat treatment? As in, normalizing the part after?

#17 czny

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

Arent the hubs cast iron? If so, Do you use a high nickel welding rod when welding?
Ay heat treatment? As in, normalizing the part after?


No, the hubs are steel. Steel will ring if you strike it & cast iron won't.

I also have welded up around the new holes for buildup using only .030 ER70S MIG wire with 75/25 gas & they've never cracked nor failed.
As with any welding, surface prep is mandatory before welding. Grind/sand/machine a clean surface first.

#18 spazomatic

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

No, the hubs are steel. Steel will ring if you strike it & cast iron won't.

I also have welded up around the new holes for buildup using only .030 ER70S MIG wire with 75/25 gas & they've never cracked nor failed.
As with any welding, surface prep is mandatory before welding. Grind/sand/machine a clean surface first.


Im feeling a bit dumb now....cuz i knew that. (Cast vs. steel)
And yeah, ive been welding at work for many a year now. Its all about the prep!
I have a mig, but i actually prefer using a stick. (Insert bad joke here):-\

#19 Numbchux

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:49 AM

The new studs in a 6-lug conversion are probably weaker than the originals

But there are more of them. You still have 2 in their original place, and you're replacing 2 with 4, spreading out the load that much more. I don't believe for a second that that will be on the list of weak links in a lifted subaru.


Also, the whole point of using 6-lug wheels is to open up your wheel options. I own 5 sets of 6-lug wheels between my Brat and 4Runner. None of them could be redrilled to 4-lug.

#20 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:41 PM

Cast iron hubs would be a DISASTER waiting to happen. Too brittle. :eek:

They are high tensile steel and welding them with standard .035 MIG wire has not been a problem for filling the holes. I fill the holes, grind the welds down a bit then turn off the last bit of excess in my lathe. For the studs I just fusion weld the edges of the stud to the hub with TIG. This works very well and when you need to replace a stud it's not that difficult to grind through and pop them loose.

GD




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