coolskaterkid Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 So driving home today, i thought the dash lights looked dim, and a couple seconds later the radio cut out, so turned off all electronics except headlights and barley made it home. tried to start it and just a click, but no battery light went on. But now when just turning the key to on, i have no battery light, it usually lights when the key is on and goes out once started. Last time the alternator died it did the same thing no battery light while going down the road, but it did show when the key was on. So since its not lighting now do i have a different issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 In my experience, a battery light indicates that the alternator is not charging the battery. However, from what you describe of the lights going dim, and radio going out, it sounds like an alternator problem, so go figure?? Suggest you charge your battery, then drive to an auto parts store. At no charge to you, a counter guy will test your car's battery, and charging system in their parking lot with their tester system. They should definitely tell you what is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolskaterkid Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 So far charged the battery,got out the multi-meter and it sits at 12.60v, when started dropped to 12.0 and kept dropping at idle. So defiantly no charge, but no battery light at all, even on the bulb test before start. I thought on some cars it uses the battery light bulb to complete the charging circuit, hopefully not the case here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 burnt out bulb. Won't charge properly without it for field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) what are you driving? sounds like you are on the second alternator already. aftermarket alternator? search the board for a subaru remanufactured alternator if you need to replace it again. should be a direct connection to the battery from the alternator (through a fusible link). you can check voltages at the alternator also. how new is the battery? if more than 5-6 years replace it. problems with the battery could lead to alternator failures. Edited December 21, 2012 by 89Ru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolskaterkid Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) what are you driving? sounds like you are on the second alternator already. aftermarket alternator? search the board for a subaru remanufactured alternator if you need to replace it again. should be a direct connection to the battery from the alternator (through a fusible link). you can check voltages at the alternator also. how new is the battery? if more than 5-6 years replace it. problems with the battery could lead to alternator failures. Completely forgot, its a 93 legacy auto. First alternator went around 180k, this one i grabbed from a junk yard, car had that had around 120k on it, my cars got 212k on it now, battery only a year old, if not less. So sounds like ill be ripping apart the dash to replace the bulb, doesnt sound like fun. With 5 feet of snow expected over the next three days. Thanks will get alt tested at parts store any ways. Also replace bulb and will report back Edit: any one have a guide to removing the gauge cluster? Edited December 21, 2012 by coolskaterkid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 burnt out bulb. Won't charge properly without it for field. Didn't know that. Looking through wiring diagrams from 1992 legacy. Alternator charge output and battery positive are connected through fusible link. ALT-1 trace goes from the alternator to the dash CHARGE lamp and is fused to battery via the ignition switch. This makes sense, there is feedback to perhaps regulate the battery charging rate. So if the bulb is burned out no alternator output. Is this the same for newer designs? There is also an ALT-2 trace that goes...not sure where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Didn't know that. Looking through wiring diagrams from 1992 legacy. Alternator charge output and battery positive are connected through fusible link. ALT-1 trace goes from the alternator to the dash CHARGE lamp and is fused to battery via the ignition switch. This makes sense, there is feedback to perhaps regulate the battery charging rate. So if the bulb is burned out no alternator output. Is this the same for newer designs? There is also an ALT-2 trace that goes...not sure where. Charge light excites the field. Alt-2 circuit is tied to Ig. circuit to ECU through a diode.....some sort of self shutoff, and this Switched 12v is the reference voltage for alt output. newer models no ALT-2, charge light does it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolskaterkid Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Took gauge cluster out, removed bulb and switched with the oil pressure bulb, and still no light, but light lit the oil pressure. So bulb is fine, took alt to auto parts store, and tests good. Where do i look next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Took gauge cluster out, removed bulb and switched with the oil pressure bulb, and still no light, but light lit the oil pressure. So bulb is fine, took alt to auto parts store, and tests good. Where do i look next? Have you checked the 10 amp "charge" fuse in the fusebox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolskaterkid Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Have you checked the 10 amp "charge" fuse in the fusebox? Did not find any fuse labeled "charge" in both the inside fuse box or main fuse box under hood. But checked all fuses with my fuse tester, and all tested good Edited December 22, 2012 by coolskaterkid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Did not find any fuse labeled "charge" in both the inside fuse box or main fuse box under hood. But checked all fuses with my fuse tester, and all tested good Fuse # 15, 10 amp. in the inside fuse box Also inspect the connection of the White/red wire at the alt (smallest)<<<<<<OOPS!!! I'm thinking EA here. test the bulb by turning key on, and grounding out the white/red wire....this should light the bulb. If it does, the system is fine and the culprit is the ALT. If not....problem in circuit (fuses, bulb out, wire disconnected) EJ The car in question here uses a Black/white wire for "charge" light. Larger gauge than the yellow wire Edited December 22, 2012 by Gloyale Correction of wire color Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolskaterkid Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Fuse # 15, 10 amp. in the inside fuse box All ten amp fuses inside car are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Did you remove the fuses to test them? If not how did you test them? Resistance? Test light? Neither will tell you if this fuse is blown. Resistance can be checked only by removing the fuse. Fuses good and the bulb works, check circuit operation as Gloyale said, ground the small white/red wire with the key On. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolskaterkid Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Did you remove the fuses to test them? If not how did you test them? Resistance? Test light? Neither will tell you if this fuse is blown. Resistance can be checked only by removing the fuse. Fuses good and the bulb works, check circuit operation as Gloyale said, ground the small white/red wire with the key On. Used buss brand fuse tester, how would i ground the wire? just unplug the connector and run a jumper from that wires pin to body ground? Edited December 22, 2012 by coolskaterkid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) yes, disconnect from the alternator and run a wire to the (-) battery terminal. my diagram shows a black/white wire for some reason for the ALT-1 wire at the alternator connector. solid white wire is tied to ALT output, don't use that wire. with ignition on (car not running) you should have 12 volts on that wire before grounding it. if you don't, there are problems upstream. in that case, check SBF's 3,4,5 in the main fuse box under the hood. this will test a few things. 1. battery is supplying voltage via fuse #15 to the charge lamp in the dash 2. charge lamp and wiring is good all the way to the alternator 3. 45 amp fuses are good upstream towards the battery these drawings are from 1997 EJ but the ALT-1 wire colors are the same as 1992. Edited December 22, 2012 by 89Ru Add year of schematic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Used buss brand fuse tester, how would i ground the wire? just unplug the connector and run a jumper from that wires pin to body ground? See above for wire color correction Yup, pull the connector, insert a jumper into the Black/white wire in the connector and run it to ground. Turn key to on, and see if the charge light comes on. 89ru, that is a newer model ALT diagram......although the Charge light, "ALT 1" circuit is essentially the same. Same fuse #15 supplies power to dash warning lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Gloyale: You caught me. Here's the earlier version from 1992. ALT-1 circuit is the same as you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolskaterkid Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) So tested it as shown and the light comes on, so alternator after all.Im going to tell auto zone there alt tester sucks. What makes them fail this way, the last time it did the same thing, no warning light, and once i noticed it was to late resulting in towing it home. Also some one said somthing about getting a alternator straight from subaru. Are they better then the parts stores, or cheaper maybe? Edited December 23, 2012 by coolskaterkid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 So tested it as shown and the light comes on, so alternator after all.Im going to tell auto zone there alt tester sucks. What makes them fail this way, the last time it did the same thing, no warning light, and once i noticed it was to late resulting in towing it home. Also some one said somthing about getting a alternator straight from subaru. Are they better then the parts stores, or cheaper maybe?Maybe better, but certainly not cheaper. I have quite a few wrecking yard alternators for the EJ22 series (my '97 Impreza). Whenever I see a good one at Pull a Part, I buy it and install it on my Impreza. The old alternator gets marked "used but tested good." And the new one stays on until it fails or is replaced by another. If your car uses the same alternator (check the large plug...the shape will tell you which version you have), I'd be glad to ship you one of my "tested" ones. If I have to ship, $45 would include the alternator as well as the shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) 95-99 alternators had a recall so Subaru sells reman units for about $75. You could put one of these in your car but you need to swap the wire harness connector to match. I suppose you could also just use spade terminals, but it won't be waterproof. So tested it as shown and the light comes on, so alternator after all. Check resistance on the lead that goes from the alternator to the fuse panel just to make sure it's not all corroded inside. Should be little or no resistance. Also worth checking voltage at the alternator output with the engine running. Edited December 23, 2012 by Fairtax4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Also worth checking voltage at the alternator output with the engine running.Easiest check to see if the alternator is working like it should: At idle you should see around 12.5 to 13 volts dc; run the rpm up and the output should increase to 13.5 to 14 volts at 3000 rpm. With more rpm the max volts should hold steady; anything above 15 volts at high rpm indicates a faulty internal voltage regulator. A better test is to do this with the headlights on; loading down the alternator shouldn't affect the output much until you reach the maximum load rating (around 65 amps for the early alternators). I usually duplicate the readings at the battery terminals (should be the same). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolskaterkid Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Ended up getting an auto zone alternator, didnt have time to get to junk yard, all seemed well for about ten miles, then the battery light, and brake light started lighting up, on and off, but i thought it was odd because when the battery light came on the lights seemed to get brighter. So i figured the regulator in it was bad, drove it from work to auto zone, and they said it had to test bad to get a replacement, but the tester on my battery car not running, and it had almost 15 volts, so it cooked my battery, the guy tried to sell me a battery for 125 bucks. But offered me ten percent off for the trouble. I talked to the manager and ended up getting the battery for 35 bucks, and the second alternator seems to be working fine. Wont ever get a parts store alternator again what a pain Thanks everyone for helping me diagnose the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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