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5 speed carnage


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16 replies to this topic

#1 markjw

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:02 PM

I bought this 1999 Forester with a known bad tranny. I currently am looking to simply replace the tranny with a good one, and be done with it. But now im thinking I might just try to fix this broken one.

I split the case today, and although its different than earlier Legacy 5 speeds ive messed with, once you get forward of the tail section, it seems very similar to the older ones. If somebody could tell me if I could use parts from a earlier tranny to repair this one, that would be handy. Mostly, I would like to know about the 5th gear and the associated synchros. And whatever gear that is below the 5th gear (maybe somebody can tell me what the correct name for it is). That one needs to be replaced as well.

The rest of the gears and bearings look great. I would most likely take the whole mess to the machine shop and have them hot tank, plus I would change the big input shaft bearing and reseal. What do you guys think? Am I wasting my time and money here? Do you suppose all the other bearings are damaged because 5th gear ate itself?

214k on this Forester and I dont think the dipstick was ever pulled let alone the tranny serviced. I dumped the gear oil and got about two quarts of what looked like old motor oil. No chunks inside, just micro glitter.

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Edited by markjw, 21 December 2012 - 06:09 PM.


#2 Gloyale

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:18 PM

That's a shredded 5th gear set (fixed/driven)

minimum, replace the gears,the synchro and both of the main support bearings immediatelly behind 5th gearset.

good news is, 5th gear can be swapped. 1st, and 2nd cannot, as the fixed gear is on the input shaft.

#3 markjw

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

Thanks for the reply. What about the gear next to 5th gearset? It was damaged some also. Not horrible but chips on the leading edge of the teeth? Can I swap that one?

#4 markjw

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:29 PM

Wait a minute. Im understanding you now. Both of the damaged gears are the "5th gear set".

#5 Gloyale

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:32 PM

Thanks for the reply. What about the gear next to 5th gearset? It was damaged some also. Not horrible but chips on the leading edge of the teeth? Can I swap that one?


the 3rd, 4th fixed gear is a collar on the lower shaft, with the speedo drive grooves in the middle. It can be pressed from the lower shaft. The upper shaft 3rd/4th gear and synchro set also press off the shaft.

The thing to remember is whatever component gear you swap on the upper shaft, make sure to use it's match on the lower shaft

#6 markjw

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 07:03 PM

Thanks for the insight, Gloyale. I believe this '99 tranny to be a second phase 5speed.

If anybody knows if the gears from a earlier 5speed will swap over to this one, please let me know.

#7 markjw

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:32 PM

Can someone tell me the function of this piece that is attached to the end of the 5MT input shaft? This is a Phase 2 tranny and the phase 1 doesn't have this. Apparently it is called a "insert stopper plate".

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#8 markjw

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:46 PM

Another pdf I downloaded calls it a "Synchro cone stopper". Mostly I'm just wondering what it does exactly. Thanks.

#9 nipper

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

http://forums.nasioc...ad.php?t=782905

Oddly when googled this part came up more then one would think.

Personally I would just go with another good tranny.

#10 markjw

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:51 AM

Thanks for the link, nipper. I am picking up a good 5MT tomorrow. Not giving up on this one thou. When I fix it, ill re-install it and see how long it lasts. And when it's still working five yrs from now, ill update this thread. :D

#11 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:18 AM

Don't fix it. There was too much heat generated by that failed gear set. The discoloration seen on other gears and in places like the speed sensor drive allude to this. That much heat can effect the case hardening of the components and that much metal means every bearing is suspect and the syncros probably took a beating from that much metal. You would be looking at three to four times the cost of a used transmission in parts and I can guarantee it will make "ghost turbo" whining noises in every gear (except 5th cause you'll have to replace that set) and may live a short life due to the changes in the hardness of the remaining components.

The part on the end of the shaft simply keeps the fifth gear shift collar from sliding off the end of the shaft since there is not a 6th gear for it to engage.

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Edited by GeneralDisorder, 26 December 2012 - 02:22 AM.


#12 ivans imports

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:19 AM

like gd said lotts of heat damage i bett the gears are welded to shafts the pinion shaft looks ok and the main may go agian but when they get hot the shafts are no longer as strong. I fixed one like thiss and it only lasted for 3 months and peeled 2nd gear

#13 ShawnW

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:08 AM

I too would scrap that box. I would bet the case is distorted where the main case meets the center case in the bearing areas. A used one is too readily available to make this one worth messing with. As a shop I get a 6 month warranty from 2 of my salvage yard suppliers and frankly I think anything that will last 6 months usually will last 6 years. Get some Extra S fluid from Subaru for your new to you trans and don't look back.

#14 markjw

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:22 PM

I installed a 3.9 tranny and the rear diff out of a '97 legacy. Everything went together perfect except the VSS. The Forester harness requires a 3 prong sensor instead of the 2 prong that came with the new tranny. Also, the new tranny was set up for a cable style clutch, the Forester is a hydraulic clutch. I had to relocate the pivot within the bell housing to accommodate the hyd style clutch fork. The bolt holes were there for the slave cyl. I was glad to see that. In the end I got it all done for $300. Except for the VSS. I still have to get the correct one. Unless somebody knows how to convert a 2 prong style to a three?

I'm going to give up on the idea of trying to repair the bad 5th gearset. As mentioned above, good 5mt's are cheap and abundant. With what I would spend to get set up to remove and install gears and bearings on a tranny shaft, I could buy two or three good trannys. It just doesn't make sense. Atleast not right now. Thanks for all the help.

#15 nipper

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:03 PM

Do it to see how things come parat (I would) but for very good reasons listed above, it doesnt pay to rebuild. There is a lot of unseen issues due to stress.

#16 Numbchux

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:36 PM

For the record, phase 1 and 2 gearsets are not really interchangeable. The reverse idler is a few mm further away from the shafts in a phase 2 set, and therefore the gears are slightly different. No way to safely use the phase 1 reverse gearset in a phase 2 case, or vice versa.



Also, the VSS is interchangeable. If you still have your forester trans, pull the sensor out of it, and put it in the legacy trans. Done!

#17 1-3-2-4

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:50 PM

That looks almost as bad as the one I split from my OBW.. the roller bearings fell out and somehow ended from the tailshaft to the front diff and fell between the case and the diff..

It was fun to open.. crap, it's been like 4-5 months and I still have those parts in the basement I need to get rid of... The only thing I think I will save is the reverse switch and speed sensor

No point in saving the front diff? I did not see anything wrong on the face and backside of the teeth.




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