Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

99 Legacy coolant flush issues


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 branbikenut1

branbikenut1

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • St. Louis, MI

Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:19 AM

I just picked up a 99 Legacy SUS and the guy before me had the water pump replaced and the guy who installed it never bled the system of air. He claims it was never overheated and a compression test was fine and everything checked out good. Well, I've added coolant and am having trouble getting all of the air out of the system. I messed with it for well over an hour and still not much luck. I read to fill the radiator then let the car run for a few minutes and if the coolant level is low again then refill and repeat until the coolant level stays full. Ive added nearly 2 gallons of coolant and it still keeps getting low. The oil is clean and i dont see any wet spots around the heads or underneath the car. The heater also wont blow hot even when the car is up to temp. Is there something I'm doing wrong or forgetting?

#2 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:55 AM

2 gallons is more than the system capacity. Should be a bit more than 1.5

Fill with the bleeder screw on the top, passenger side of the radiator removed. Once coolant comes out of that hole plug it and continue filling.

That should be all that's required.

Or get a Uview AirLift:

http://www.amazon.co...XDD1BE6BCKMWH7G

The EJ25D is VERY prone to HG failure. When they fail no amount of bleeding will help. They push combustion gasses into the cooling system and displace the coolant - causing the pump to cavitate. Compression testing these failures shows nothing. It sounds a lot like you have a blown HG on your hands.

GD

#3 oregoncoast

oregoncoast

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 56 posts
  • Oregon Coast

Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:47 AM

Sounds like blown HG to me too...

#4 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,926 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:58 AM

Water pump was replaced because...?????? It blew a head gasket and started overheating. Water pump got blamed. I'd be willing to bet it overheated more than once.
Swap it or put rod bearings in it. It probably needs them now.

#5 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,382 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 29 December 2012 - 08:05 AM

it probably is the head gaskets, but before you pull the engine i would do a little more testing just to be sure. immediate over heating after refiling the cooling system would mean it is a huge head gasket leak.

i would remove the t-stat and see if it is after market.
i would fill and run it with no t-stat probably for a week or more. it will run cold and maybe never reach operating temp, but if the head gaskets are leaking, you will need to add coolant at some point. (you may be able to cover part of the rad with cardboard to help the engine run warmer.)

if it does not take any coolant over the long term with no t-stat, then the head gaskets are OK.

there are other simpler tests, checking for bubbles in the over flow when it is over heating or checking the coolant for hydrocarbons.

but until you have confirmed that it is a ''SUBARU'' t-stat, and that it is filled and burped correctly you may be jumping the gun to assume it is the head gaskets.

#6 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 19,992 posts
  • WV

Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:20 AM

You are wise to check for something simple but it sounds like you have blown headgaskets.

Oil/coolant mixing, external leaks, and compression tests are meaningless on that motor, they always pass those tests when they blow headgaskets.

You can try a leak down test or test for exhaust gases in the coolant. If it's overheating, bubbles in the overflow tank, and has no heat (or only heat for a minute or two) when it's overheating....those all happen when the headgaskets blow.

#7 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:31 AM

You are wise to check for something simple but it sounds like you have blown headgaskets.

Oil/coolant mixing, external leaks, and compression tests are meaningless on that motor, they always pass those tests when they blow headgaskets.

You can try a leak down test or test for exhaust gases in the coolant. If it's overheating, bubbles in the overflow tank, and has no heat (or only heat for a minute or two) when it's overheating....those all happen when the headgaskets blow.


All true. If you wanna burp it pull the lower hose at WP to drain first, then refill through top hose until full, then rad.

After you're done take for an hour drive, and take reading material and coolant. I recommend a drive a half hour away, turn around and head back. Usually happens at about 30-45 minutes for me in the summer.

If it's head gaskets (odds are great!) you'll need something to read while it cools down.

If it is HG's I'd do a 2.2, then if you wanna keep the 2.5 do rod bearings as pointed out. I 2.2 them. Don't think about a JY engine because they have the same HG issues.

It's been overheated several times by now. The original owner was in denial before mechanic threw a water pump at it. The the PO caused several more overheat cycles before he decided to just sell it.

Don't be one of the folks who does a HG job only to have rod bearings start to make bad noise withing the next 5k or so and need to do rod bearings.

#8 branbikenut1

branbikenut1

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • St. Louis, MI

Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:34 AM

Thanks everyone for the good advise. I did quite a bit of research before buying the car and knew the head gaskets were a common problem for these engines. I kind of figured that was the problem and for the price i was willing to accept it. I think I'm going to go the route of replacing the gaskets, thermostat, and the radiator cap. Id consider the 2.2 swap buy Subaru's aren't very common around my area.


You are wise to check for something simple but it sounds like you have blown headgaskets.

Oil/coolant mixing, external leaks, and compression tests are meaningless on that motor, they always pass those tests when they blow headgaskets.

You can try a leak down test or test for exhaust gases in the coolant. If it's overheating, bubbles in the overflow tank, and has no heat (or only heat for a minute or two) when it's overheating....those all happen when the headgaskets blow.


Whats the reason for not blowing heat? Mine wont blow even warm air.



All true. If you wanna burp it pull the lower hose at WP to drain first, then refill through top hose until full, then rad.

After you're done take for an hour drive, and take reading material and coolant. I recommend a drive a half hour away, turn around and head back. Usually happens at about 30-45 minutes for me in the summer.

If it's head gaskets (odds are great!) you'll need something to read while it cools down.

If it is HG's I'd do a 2.2, then if you wanna keep the 2.5 do rod bearings as pointed out. I 2.2 them. Don't think about a JY engine because they have the same HG issues.

It's been overheated several times by now. The original owner was in denial before mechanic threw a water pump at it. The the PO caused several more overheat cycles before he decided to just sell it.

Don't be one of the folks who does a HG job only to have rod bearings start to make bad noise withing the next 5k or so and need to do rod bearings.


What is the reason for changing the rod bearings? Im probably going to do that as well while the engine is out as well as getting the heads refinished. Are they a real pain to change? I don't have much experience with boxer engines, this is only me 2nd subie and my loyale has been pretty low maintenance engine wise.

The previous owner did take very good care of this car, he was also a subie fan and knew the problem. He was also LOADED so just bought a new car when the gaskets went. The reason the water pump was changed is because he had a pinhole in the original radiator and had a new one installed and put a new pump in it while it was apart. It wasn't from a faulty pump. I read on a different forum that a lot of people had HG issues after flushing the system which would have been done after the radiator swap. He had about 5k miles before the issue.

#9 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:52 AM

Overheating breaks down the oil. This causes rod bearing damage. The bearings in the 25D are 4mm smaller diameter than the 2.2 and second gen 2.5 and are prone to failure from being too small.

The 25D is just a big pile of problems and expensive maintenance and repair issues. It's not a great idea to go in for a full rebuild having never split a Subaru block before. It will end badly. Get a 2.2 for it. Why is it necessary to get one locally? There are plenty of suppliers that will ship it to your door. I have engines delivered to me all the time.

We don't say these things to hear ourselves talk. I've done full rebuilds on 25D's, HG jobs, and many, MANY 2.2 swaps. I own and operate a Subaru repair and performance shop and I have plenty of experience rebuilding these - I still don't usually bother. The 2.2 is better in so many ways and can be had for only slightly more than a proper HG job on a 25D.

GD

#10 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

Overheating breaks down the oil. This causes rod bearing damage. The bearings in the 25D are 4mm smaller diameter than the 2.2 and second gen 2.5 and are prone to failure from being too small.

The 25D is just a big pile of problems and expensive maintenance and repair issues. It's not a great idea to go in for a full rebuild having never split a Subaru block before. It will end badly. Get a 2.2 for it. Why is it necessary to get one locally? There are plenty of suppliers that will ship it to your door. I have engines delivered to me all the time.

We don't say these things to hear ourselves talk. I've done full rebuilds on 25D's, HG jobs, and many, MANY 2.2 swaps. I own and operate a Subaru repair and performance shop and I have plenty of experience rebuilding these - I still don't usually bother. The 2.2 is better in so many ways and can be had for only slightly more than a proper HG job on a 25D.

GD


Usually a 2.2 with new timing components and new seals (cam, crank, 2 thin Orings, reseal baffle plate) I do pluga and accessory belts and anything else that looks like needs done while it's on a stand, costs about the same as a good HG job. Good meaning heads checked and resurfaced and rad flushed.

Search here about the swap. The golden engine is a 95 auto (with EGR). Any newer and you'll need the matching Ypipe because they are single port exhaust.

And if an auto search here about torque converter seating.

Other than these 2 items you need to pay attention to it'll be the easiest engine pull you've ever done.

I recomment a 14mm swivwl socket(and long extension) for the lower drivers side eng/trans bolt/nut.

Only other thing that may require a tool you may not have is flexplate bolts. I take them out the top and use a snap-on (or gearwrench) 1/4 rotohead ratchet, some use an offset box end, some lift the engine a bit and take them off the bottom.

car-part is your friend to find an engine, and from a place likely to ship. You may want to post here for references(or lack thereof).

#11 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,382 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:27 AM

you do not have to find an ej22, 2.2L engine, in your area, but it does make it a little cheaper to do so.

look here, www.car-part.com . put in your zip and sort by distance first. then just for grins, sort by price. shipping an engine will usually cost around $150, but some times you can find a deal mking it worht the shipping.

good luck.

#12 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,382 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:47 AM

these guys have a 95 impreza ej22 w/ 158k miles close to st louis for $350. you will need to check if it has EGR first. and you may /probably will have to buy an intake manifold off of a 96 - 97, ej22, legacy or impreza auto trans car to make it obd2.

1995
Engine
Subaru Impreza 2.2L (VIN '6' 6th digit)-
158,000
A6734
$350
Parts-X-Press USA-MO(Hillsboro)
1-636-274-1600

Edited by johnceggleston, 30 December 2012 - 11:29 AM.


#13 branbikenut1

branbikenut1

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • St. Louis, MI

Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:31 AM

Ive been doing a lot more research on the 2.2 swap. I can definitely see how it'll be better in the long run. i found a 2.2 with 140,xxx out of a 95 auto legacy. Will i have to do anything with the computer for it to work right going from the 2.5 to the 2.2? before i start investing some major bucks i want to make sure I get all the correct info i need.

GeneralDisorder I've been doing some looking around and cant really find a write up to do the swap, i know its not too awfully complicated of a swap but any pictures or a walk through would be nice. If you have or know where a writeup is or any good detailed advise on a swap that'd be extremely appreciated. I'm strongly leaning towards doing the swap

#14 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,382 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

Will i have to do anything with the computer for it to work right going from the 2.5 to the 2.2?

in a nut shell, you swap the flex plate from your engine onto the new engine (or fly wheel if manual trans) and then drop it in your car. nothing else.

there are lots of tips and tricks to make the swap easier, and recommended ''service'' you should do before to install the engine. but in the end it is just a swap. the computer in your car will run the ej22 just fine.

i suggest you ''advanced'' search ''ej22 swap'' but just the titles and just in ''new generation'', not the full posts. you will have plenty to read.

the 95 ej22 auto trans engine is the preferred engine and the easiest swap so you are good there. if you have an auto trans in your car please search and read the thread titled ''seat torque converter mnwolftrak''.

Edited by johnceggleston, 01 January 2013 - 12:42 PM.


#15 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:29 PM

My favorite swap document (there are several, search should find them) was by "skipnospam" @ comcast I beleive.

It may be about a HG job. But overall an excellent writeup.

Very MINOR issues like no place to screw PS lines to (doesn't mater) and often some rerouting of vacuum lines and valve cover breather hoses.

#16 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 03 January 2013 - 05:56 PM

There's not really enough information to need a write up.

If you are using a '95 Auto 2.2 then the only thing you have to do is swap the flex plate off the 2.5 and drop it in. There are no modifications required to ANYTHING. It's a direct plug-and-play swap. Pay attention to where things went with the 2.5 removal cause they go back in the same place on the 2.2.

The only other item that's sometimes mentioned is the power steering lines - you can swap to the 2.2 lines if you want a completely correct "factory" look to your engine bay but it's not required at all. They are just lower to bolt to the 2.2 manifold instead of the 2.5. It's not a requirement in any way and the 2.5 lines aren't loose or bothered by not having a place to mount.

As Dave mentioned there are times when you need to reroute some vacuum lines but this shouldn't be the case with a '99. You should be able to just loop the carbon canister ports on the front of the '95 manifold and everything should work as designed. The '99 has the canister in the back under the car but it connects to the same port on the manifold as the fuel tank vent line connected on the '95. So by looping the canister lines on the manifold you are connecting the '99s canister to the purge solenoid supply line and everything should just fall into place at that point. The really confusing swaps are when you are using a '97/'98 engine in place of a '96 25D.... then a bunch of rerouting is required to enable the front canister to function properly since the manifold has no provision for it on the later engines.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 03 January 2013 - 06:06 PM.


#17 Rooster2

Rooster2

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 3,709 posts
  • Indianapolis

Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

Ive been doing a lot more research on the 2.2 swap. I can definitely see how it'll be better in the long run. i found a 2.2 with 140,xxx out of a 95 auto legacy. Will i have to do anything with the computer for it to work right going from the 2.5 to the 2.2? before i start investing some major bucks i want to make sure I get all the correct info i need.

GeneralDisorder I've been doing some looking around and cant really find a write up to do the swap, i know its not too awfully complicated of a swap but any pictures or a walk through would be nice. If you have or know where a writeup is or any good detailed advise on a swap that'd be extremely appreciated. I'm strongly leaning towards doing the swap


I had a 95 2.2 swapped into my 98 OBW that came with the 2.5 motor. No need to change the computer. The 2.5 computer works just fine with the 2.2 motor. I bought my 2.2 motor with 150 K miles on odo from a local wreck. Two guys can pick up the motor to move it. I am happy with the results.

I agree with other comments that your 2.5 motor has likely been over heated repeatedly in the past, and not worth a rebuild.

#18 branbikenut1

branbikenut1

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • St. Louis, MI

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

Thanks again everyone. Im currently in the hunt for a 2.2. As for the 2.5, i might just rebuilt it and swap it into my loyale for my play toy.

I found a 96 auto 2.2 and the guy said he also has a set of dual port heads off of a 95, will those swap over without issues?

#19 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,382 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:59 AM

the 96 will work as is if it has EGR and if you you swap the matching single port exhaust y-pipe.

#20 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:10 PM

sube101 and I worked closely on the design of dual-to-single adapters which he can produce for anyone here at a cost of about $80. You simply cut off the dual port sections right after they merge together and either weld or clamp the adapters to the remaining "stubs". They work very well and are easy to install. A hack saw or die grinder is all that's needed and you can use generic exhaust clamps from the parts store if you don't want to do any welding.

GD




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users