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Feels like being I'm being pushed into turns


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16 replies to this topic

#1 brus brother

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:57 PM

Well we just got our first taste of winter and I get an uneasy feeling from my 05 OB auto like I am being pushed from behind when driving on snow.
Makes me feel like I am sliding into turns, like the rear wants to fish out behind me.
I only have all seasons on it (still plenty of tread) but I don't remember this sensation last winter.
I don't think I've experienced any TB issues and have faithfully changed fluids.
The upside is that the uneasy feeling definitely keeps me at or under the speed limit for the roads.

#2 davebugs

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:16 PM

Sounds like classic torque bind.

#3 brus brother

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:35 PM

Sounds like classic torque bind.

hmmm. What to do? Just went down and inspected the fluid. Looks pink and happy. 130,000 miles.
Fluid was changed about 15K ago. Always did a drain and fill on regular basis. Never did a flush.
I just took it out and ran tight circles at low speed and there didn't seem to be a struggle. No jumping, shuddering.
Trying to figure out what else it might be:
When it warms up, I guess I'll check the rear diff to ensure decent fluids and level? Must admit I haven't been back there lately!
Power steering?
Any ideas welcome.
I did curb the right front in icy conditions last week hard enough to take some meat our of the rim. No shimmy, shake or vibration at any speed.

Edited by brus brother, 31 December 2012 - 06:04 AM.


#4 Gloyale

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

Rear end alingment

Those years are known for this issue. It's called the "ghostwalk"

I believe they changed suspension bushing in the rear for the 08+ models....but the 05-07s have the issue, many from the factory.

Try adding some weight in the rear. A change in the stance in the rear end will change the rear camber and toe a hair. The more the suspension is pushed down, the more inward toe. (likely you have outward toe in the fully unloaded position).

#5 davebugs

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

Try what Gloyale said.

My personal knowledge mostly stops at 2000, some exp with a 2006 that I used to service, but did regular tranny service on by doing a drain and fill of ATF every other oil change.

#6 brus brother

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:32 AM

Gloyale,
How much weight are we talking about?
Couple of 50 lb. bags of sand over the rear axle?
Are you suggesting a rear alignment? My reading indicates that SOA may have changed the specs on these years.
This was a pretty scary experience and I'm not letting my wife drive this car until I sort it out.

#7 gregB

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

When we bought the wifes 2008 Outback, I did a bunch of "reading" about what you are describing. There are a couple of very long threads on another Subaru forum, for Outbacks specifically. If I remember the alignment specs did change, and the suggestion of alignment with some extra weight in the car to simulate passenger load was suggested. Lots of opinions offered, little concrete fact as Subaru has really not owned up to a problem with the lifting of the car without re-engineering the suspensions.

#8 Gloyale

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:40 PM

Gloyale,
How much weight are we talking about?
Couple of 50 lb. bags of sand over the rear axle?
Are you suggesting a rear alignment? My reading indicates that SOA may have changed the specs on these years.
This was a pretty scary experience and I'm not letting my wife drive this car until I sort it out.


100-200lbs behind the rear seatback could help in the short term.

After that, I'd say align it. The alignment should be done with out the additional weight. Unless you are planning on having that much weight in the car all the time.

There should be zero toe out on the rear wheels, and they should be thrust aligned to the front at when the suspension is in normally loaded, regular driving level.

#9 nipper

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:42 PM

I'm still trying to figure out how this only happens on ice covered roads. The only thing I can come up with is the added weight of ice and snow on the undercarrige is affecting the rear wheel stance. Not all of them do it, sort of like head gaskets on earlier cars.

I am waiting for my first snow event to see if mine does it.

#10 nipper

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:49 PM

http://carproblemzoo...on-problems.php

Post #33 ... interesting.

Maybe as the springs ever so slightly sag or bushings wear over time the rear toe goes out.

Seems like adding weight makes it worse.

I know the first time i hit a bump on a curve the tail jumped sideways a little bit, which i thought odd, but i have expierienced that in RWD cars too in the past.

#11 brus brother

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:59 AM

Hey Nipper,
Thanks for the research. Problems are reported starting from post #7 to 33. YIKES! This is not a one-off problem.
I'm going for an alignment Thursday before any new snowfall. I'll report back with my numbers.
The first time I became aware of this was just this year after snow began falling and then a few days later when there was a little slush left on the road. Only my wife and I were in the car at that time and the next time it was just me.
I have been using the mighty Subaru to move a LOT of cut trees to a friend's after Sandy's storm. Wonder if that extra weight did any damage...
If it is some other wonky tuning issue with the AWD, would it help to add (or is it remove?) the fuse to deactivate the AWD to help in the diagnosis?

Edited by brus brother, 02 January 2013 - 08:37 AM.


#12 nipper

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:23 AM

I dont think you have done any damage, I just think that the tolerances are so tight in alignment that is does not take into account wear and tear over time and the toe changes.

#13 grossgary

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

my 200,000 miles 2002 H6 OBW had a weak drivers side spring that finally "failed" (performance failure, not physical/visible failure) due to a large load.

rear struts were weak for a long time, 2 years or more. i finally replaced the struts this summer, folks said not to replace springs so I didn't.

few months later on a road trip with 1,000+ pounds roughly the drivers side rear sagged well below normal.

After that incident the car drove perfectly fine with no load (well, one 180 pound driver - me).
with maybe 500 pounds the car handled oddly - oscillated wildly in the rear on bumps. Had to drive 50 mph or less on highway when loaded this much.
with 1,000+ pounds it sagged.
it never made any noises, all performance issues.

what is odd - is that upon disassembly to replace the springs - both sides looked the same and there was no noticeable issue with the spring. same length, couldn't compress it by hand, etc. as poorly as it handled I expected something to be broken, warn, or bent.

replaced the springs and it's fine now.

anyway mine doesn't have ghostwalking issues -but thought I'd related that since I encountered heavy loads, weak suspension, and wild rear handling.

#14 efseiler

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:29 AM

Well we just got our first taste of winter and I get an uneasy feeling from my 05 OB auto like I am being pushed from behind when driving on snow.
Makes me feel like I am sliding into turns, like the rear wants to fish out behind me.
I only have all seasons on it (still plenty of tread) but I don't remember this sensation last winter.
I don't think I've experienced any TB issues and have faithfully changed fluids.
The upside is that the uneasy feeling definitely keeps me at or under the speed limit for the roads.


Maybe Sauron is pissed and wants to 'teach you a lesson'... :lol:

#15 Setright

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:14 AM

In all fairness...the car is 7 seven years old. Audi/VW products eat bushings in 2-4 years.

#16 brus brother

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:46 AM

Personally, not trying to be unfair. Came here looking for direction only.
The referenced links do seem to indicate that some 05 owners were experiencing problems within the same time range Setright decries for Audi/VW products.
Have an appointment for next week for an alignment and will ask that they evaluate suspension/bushings/blinker fluid.
Just don't want that "heart in my throat" feeling next snowfall.
Nipper, you've already upgraded/updated some suspension elements so you may have already addressed any cause or you might just be lucky with your 05. I don't remember if you posted anywhere but how many miles on your Sandymobile?

#17 efseiler

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:32 AM

Gloyale,
How much weight are we talking about?
Couple of 50 lb. bags of sand over the rear axle?
Are you suggesting a rear alignment? My reading indicates that SOA may have changed the specs on these years.
This was a pretty scary experience and I'm not letting my wife drive this car until I sort it out.


Yeah, I know that feeling, too. It's like the car shrunk and sits in your lap.

At that point it more like sailing...and less like driving (let alone the luxury of flying).

Personally, I keep about 50 lbs in the rear and get studded snow tires.

Give your car some claws!

--Damien




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