zstamp19 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Ok so I have a 97 Outback and threw a rod in the engine WOO! Anyways it currently has a 2.5 in it with manual trans. so I am looking to swap the engine. I have found a 95 or 96 engine the guy selling it isn't 100% sure. He tells me it is a 2.5. The question I really have is will it match up? I'm pretty sure my current engine is Dual cam and I know the engine I am looking to buy is a single cam. I don't know what all I would need to do in order to make those line up or if it is even possible. I guess the other thing I need to know is if my engine is dual or single cam? Any help you all can give would be great. And try and keep it in dumb terms I'm am new to these cars and engine swaps on post 64 year vehicles. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 if you use the whole engine with intake on it should work as long as it has the same 3 engine harness conectors keep ps and ac with car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 ok so I need to take the ps and ac off my old engine co rrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 http://www.car-parts.com I have found a 95 or 96 engine the guy selling it isn't 100% sure. He tells me it is a 2.5. The question I really have is will it match up? I'm pretty sure my current engine is Dual cam and I know the engine I am looking to buy is a single cam. 2.5's were only offered in 1996+. there is no 1995 2.5. 1996-1999 Legacy 2.5's were not single cam. So it sounds like he is selling you a 2.2 liter. I would hope it's an honest mistake and not a shady seller. I would walk carefully though to be sure. Let's assume it's a 2.2 liter - it will work in your vehicle. 1. If it's from a 1995 automatic you don't need anything, it'll bolt up and be plug and play. 2. if it's from a 1995 manual it won't have an EGR valve and you'll have a check engine light that's impossible to get rid of without some significant effort. If your state has emissions, you won't pass with that light on. If you don't have emissions and don't mind ignoring the check engine light it doesn't matter - the car will drive just fine. 3. If it's a 1996 then you'll also need the exhaust manifold with it as the 2.2 liter went to single port exhaust and your vehicle is a dual port exhaust. #2 EGR comments apply as well - except that in 1996 you can only look at the engine to verify,it isn't 100% accurate to say a particular engine (automatics) got EGR in 1996, so you have to look or ask. and yes - you simply bolt your 2.5 accessories and brackets on top of the 2.2 liter engine, very simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 You guys are awesome thanks for the quick replies. Are there any numbers on the engine I can look at to tell what year and liter the engine is so I know what I am looking at. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 I also don't have to worry about inspections in KY so thats always nice. But any help you all could give me on the above comment would help thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) does this help? EJ25 has huge timing covers with two round forms in each side timing cover like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Subaru-EJ25-Engine-DOHC-2-5L-Forester-Legacy-1995-1998-Motor-/261152310534?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ccde40506&vxp=mtr 2.2 liter EJ22 has the small timing covers with the single cam markings like so: http://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-Subaru-Legacy-2-2L-Engine-Assembly-200k-OEM-LKQ-/360552309341?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ASubaru&hash=item53f297a25d&vxp=mtr okay if you don't have to worry about the check engine light then you can basically install either if you don't mind ignoring the check engine light. if you're okay ignoring the check engine light and EGR then: Any 1995 is plug and play and runs fine. Any 1996 is the same except you'll any single port exhaust manifold as well (which means any 1996-2001 EJ22 exhaust manifold). Get that manifold and that engine is also plug and play. the ebay timing belt kits are most advisable too, and that 95 or 96 Ej22 will have the older, cheaper, and more reliable timing set up. for $80 or so you get all new pulleys, tensioner pulley, and timing belt. Edited January 7, 2013 by grossgary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 does this help? EJ25 has huge timing covers with two round forms in each side timing cover like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Subaru-EJ25-Engine-DOHC-2-5L-Forester-Legacy-1995-1998-Motor-/261152310534?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ccde40506&vxp=mtr 2.2 liter EJ22 has the small timing covers with the single cam markings like so: http://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-Subaru-Legacy-2-2L-Engine-Assembly-200k-OEM-LKQ-/360552309341?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ASubaru&hash=item53f297a25d&vxp=mtr okay if you don't have to worry about the check engine light then you can basically install either if you don't mind ignoring the check engine light. if you're okay ignoring the check engine light and EGR then: Any 1995 is plug and play and runs fine. Any 1996 is the same except you'll any single port exhaust manifold as well (which means any 1996-2001 EJ22 exhaust manifold). Get that manifold and that engine is also plug and play. the ebay timing belt kits are most advisable too, and that 95 or 96 Ej22 will have the older, cheaper, and more reliable timing set up. for $80 or so you get all new pulleys, tensioner pulley, and timing belt. Thanks this is what I needed to know. I'm pretty sure I can have this thing running again in a couple weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 If anyone has any tips on installing the engine or potential problems I may need to be aware of before hand feel free to send them my way. Thanks guys (or possibly gals) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Does anyone know if there are any forum post where it shows someone switching out a 2.5 for a 2.2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 If anyone has any tips on installing the engine or potential problems I may need to be aware of before hand feel free to send them my way.Thanks guys (or possibly gals) Subaru FSM's are easily found on the internet and give step by step instructions. They are verbose but very helpful. Download any 1995-1999 EJ22 or EJ25 and look for the engine removal process. If it's an automatic make sure the torque converter is fully seated when you install the engine. Best to try and make sure it stay seated when pulling the engine so you never have to touch it. The torque conveter should never touch the flexplate when reinstalling the engine...the flexplate bolts draw the flexplate and torque converter together...if it hits when installing the engine then it's not fully seated in the trans. Forcing the engine/trans together with the flexplate touching the torque converter will crack the pump inside the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i have done 4 of the 2.2 -2.5 swaps thiss year or more the egr is the bigest diffaculty everything else is fairly strait forward make shure you use the flex plate off of the 2.5 and change the plastic pcv plate for a meatal one if needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Ok so the guy doesn't have the manifold for this engine. He seems to think I use the my engine head I can use the manifold off my 2.5. Is this true? APIA? What should I do Subaru knowledge gods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) If an engine has two holes on each side it is dual port correct? I think this is going to continue to confuse me talking to this guy until I just go out and look at the engine he has sent me pics but I can't tell from the pics what all is going on. I may try and post them here and see if anyone can tell me anything. Edited January 8, 2013 by zstamp19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 The single v. dual port deal is strictly with the exhaust manifolds, we can't tell which one you have with the pics, you need to check out the bottom side of the heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I have a 95 2.2 that just had new HG, all new engine gaskets, timing belt water pump, cam seals, plugs the works done and then the buddy I had this done for ran the car off the road. The engine ran great and can be had if you are interested. It is still in the car and it is in Wausaukee WI now, but can be shipped. Let me know if you have an interest. You can have the whole car for $600. You will need a flatbed although I think it can be driven onto a trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks for the offer but I'm getting this engine pretty cheap and my car is in great shape. And I'll see if I can get pictures of the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) that engine does not have the necessary EGR, you will always have a CEL . it looks like a 90 - 94 ej22, dual port engine. it will bolt in and run fine, but you will always have a CEL. that will fail some state inspections and it will definitely make the car much harder to sell. you need an ej22 w/ EGR, typically from a 95 - 98 auto trans car. Edited January 10, 2013 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I guess you've checked http://www.car-parts.com (look up legacy, impreza EJ22's...heck even EJ18's work, I got one in mine, if price is that much of a driving factor). posted in the parts wanted forum here? I've bought EJ engines for $150-$300 before and they come with a 6 month warranty and they're usually tested - out of wrecked cars and known to be good. The highest priced $300 one I just bought two months ago was for a friends OBW with blown engine and I bought one with lower miles so it was more expensive, there were some $200 options out there. That is an EJ22 without EGR. I also believe, but have some uncertainty, that's a a 90-94 as John said as well. Need a 95-98 EJ22 intake manifold for it to work. I've heard of folks swapping the intake manifold wiring harness...so if he can give you the intake in the picture - you could possibly swap your EJ25 wiring harness onto the intake manifold. you said he doesn't have the manifold for this engine - but it's clearly in the picture? Be careful when the person is unclear about a cheap engine. There has been uncertainty about whether it's an EJ22 or EJ25...then unsure about what year it is - we still don't know....he can't tell you? Last year a friend was in the exact same situation, 97 or 98 OBW even....guy was vague on this used engine...i looked at it and it had some melted timing covers and suggested I wouldn't do it or at the minimum do a leak down test. He bought and I helped him install it anyway and engine had blown headgaskets and now has rod knock. I would closely inspect the oil for any oil/coolant mixing/glitter...or even brand new fresh oil (indicating it was changed to cover up)...or melted timing belt covers, or heavy black deposits under the valve covers. I would consider it a worst case scenario, but you can bolt the EJ25 heads onto the block - the opposite swap (EJ22 heads onto EJ25 block) is done all the time, very common, so it's physically possible. Fairly certain there is valve clearance (more of an issue with larger heads on a smaller block - non-issue when you go the other way). Very few people, I've only ever hear of one have swapped EJ25 heads onto a smaller block. you'd loose compression and end up with higher maintenance heads and nearly non-adjustable valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 my friend was driving to and back from Padukah KY today...should have thrown an engine on his truck for you. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstamp19 Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Yea that would have been nice. Thanks for all the info guys I might have located another engine around here so I will getsome pictures of it and see what we have there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 1995's: $200 Martinsville, IN 1-800-369-8549 $300 West Belfry, KY 877-273-1134 1996: (you will need exhaust header) $300 Mt. Sterling, KY 1-800-633-2441 $295 Fairmount, IN 1-765-948-3659 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 so I will getsome pictures of it and see what we have there. pictures are a nice tool, but you saw above they are not definitive. you need a 95 - 98 ej22 with EGR, usually from an auto trans car. but double check. look fr one of these and you will have fewer questions and very little need for pictures. buying from a salvage yard that knows the year and features of the engine and offers a warranty is a pretty safe bet. they sell these thing every day and their success depends on there knowledge and experience. buying one out of some one's garage may be cheaper, but you are going to be relying on your own knowledge and experience. this is not wrong or bad, but more risky if you don't have a lot of either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 you need a 95 - 98 ej22 with EGR, he's not worried about the check engine light, we covered all that (and the need for exhaust headers for 96+) on page one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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