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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Real horsepower from A 2.2l


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65 replies to this topic

#1 Hatched

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:06 AM

I have A 1985 EA81 hatchback that I am putting A EJ22 in. The donor car is A 1990 legacy, naturally asperated 2.2l. I plan to totally rebuild the motor, and plan to get as much dependable power out of it as possible. I am going for the most torque I can obtain because I am going to lift it 3-4 inches and of course bigger wheels and tires. Simply put: What kind of TORQUE numbers, and HORSEPOWER numbers can I get out of A 2.2l and maintain that "good ole Subaru dependability".

#2 ivans imports

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:05 AM

i change out the stock crank pully for a heavyer 2.5 pully and use the hevyest flywheel i can find the more rotating wheight the more touque it makes

#3 Idasho

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:13 AM

All a heavier rotating mass does is make it less likely to stall.

Adding weighs simply slows the speed a motor can change revs. It does NOT increase (or decrease) torque. Even though it may feel like it does.

#4 ivans imports

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:18 AM

sorry but tested thery we put a lightend flywheel on a offroad car lett the clutch out and whoud die with the heavy flywheel not at all let the clutch out and drive away

#5 TajMan

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:51 AM

^Yeah buddy, that's because of the extra rotating mass with different flywheel/pulley, all the extra weight will do is keep the engine from dying easier (even allowing car to move with clutch release and no throttle input),
IT WILL NOT CREATE ANY MORE TORQUE!


I'll let others chime in on actual numbers, because I just know approximations not specifics...
BUT, you can gain a little reliable HP, if you are building the engine yourself... with the right mild porting in areas that could use it, with a healthy tuned aftermarket exhaust system, and even performance cams are an option... Heck even(especially) after all that, you can install a wideband 02 sensor and a SAFCII and tune just a few more ideal HP out of the engine.
All without forced induction or NOS.

Edited by TajMan, 11 January 2013 - 11:53 AM.


#6 rpholz

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

Ooh, physics!

Inertia is the name of the game:a wheel in motion wants to stay in motion, a wheel at rest wants to stay at rest.

Increase mass and you increase inertia, there for a heavy rotating mass does not want to stop, a light one does not want to move.

Think of it this way:
Take a pebble and roll it down a hill as it reaches the bottom it stops fairly quickly do to its lack of mass and inertia

Now take the same hill and roll. Boulder down it, once it reaches the bottom it carries on and into whatever is big enough to stop it or it finally runs out of kinetic energy.

Same forces upon both stones but since the bolder has more mass it had more inertia to keep rolling once it reached the bottom of the hill.

AND NOW YOU KNOW. Lol

#7 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

Heard that if you use head gaskets from a turbo model the gasket is a little thinner and a little stronger. That thinness give you a small compression bump and a small horsepower bump.

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:31 PM

Frankly you are going about this the wrong way. The whole point of using the EJ22 is so you don't have to rebuild it. It's already twice the power of the EA81. Rebuilding EJ22's is money down the drain - they are super plentiful and make plenty of power on their own. Also the improvements (other than torque cams) that can be had from "building" one are really small and not worth the effort or the expense.

A 90 Legacy is not ideal from a harness or manifold perspective. Especially if it's an MT with that odd one-year 2 wire idle control. The 90's also like to throw phantom codes quite a bit - they were the first year and are especially cantankerous. These days the OBD-II stuff is getting so cheap that it's a no-brainer to step up to a 95+ harness and intake. They do better with torque cams also.

GD

#9 eulogious

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

With my 1990 lifted leggy on 235/75/15's with a 3" SJR lift and Forester struts I really haven't noticed that much of a power loss. Hardly at all really. I was genuinely surprised at this. I thought that for sure I would see a pretty big loss in power, and I have yet to really notice it. Granted I have a 4EAT w/4.11 gears, so that helps out a ton.

It's not really the power of the motor that matters but more of the final drive ratio. 4.11's and 4.44's are the way to go if you have a lifted rig. Don't know if you can even get those with the manual/older cars, but the gears are what really make a big difference with a lifted rig.

My suggestion to you would be just lift the car and worry about the power loss once it's lifted. I think you might be surprised. The "little" 2.2 is the engine that could, I tell you what! I was thinking that I would need to "franken" motor my car to get the power back, and that was kinda at the top of my list of stuff to do before I actually lifted my car, but now that's it's lifted I am rethinking that as I am not really disappointed with the performance of my lifted rig. I would rather put that money into bigger and better things for my car before spending the money to get more "performance" out of my car. Just not really worth the money, IMHO.

#10 Hatched

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:18 AM

Wowwywow! You guys have the gears in my my brain going wide open! And I love it.:D This is the kind of response I was hoping for. The reason for rebuilding, or I should say building the motor is because I want to get its full potential. I enjoy building motors, its just plain ole fun to see what I can acheive by putting A little bit here and A little bit there, and A lot over there. I want to use everyones experience, so I am not disapointed with the outcome. I have built truck loads of V8's, and always researched the heck out of building dependable power and applied it to the build with A mostly successful outcome. The Boxer is A totally different animal. I know A lot of general things apply to building all engines, but I'm looking for the subaru guru's that know, what they suggest works, from actually doing it, to A 2.2l.
It already appears that I have the wrong year to start with. It can be corrected some how. Thats why I want ya'lls input.

#11 AKghandi

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:28 AM

you could always put a rear mount turbo on it. Most will shoot the idea down, but its cheap, easy, and doesn't affect general power, MPG, and if you dont use it too much, the reliability. But when you mash it, there's 30+ horsepower on tap.:headbang:

http://www.junkyardt...Mount-Turbo.php
this will give you a general idea.

#12 Hatched

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:10 AM

I have put A turbo on my list of considerations. I have A 1989 EA82 turbo car that is complete, meaning its A good running car that is rusted down. I was wondering if the turbo set-up would interchange with my 2.2l. I like the idea of 30+HP on tap!

#13 ystrdyisgone

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:37 AM

Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe when they were referring to the engine year the conditions were specifically pertaining to intake manifold and wiring harness/ecu system. Seems you would only have to search out those things 95+ and throw them on your existing 2.2 block.

#14 maozebong

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:07 AM

I have put A turbo on my list of considerations. I have A 1989 EA82 turbo car that is complete, meaning its A good running car that is rusted down. I was wondering if the turbo set-up would interchange with my 2.2l. I like the idea of 30+HP on tap!


just get a junkyard turbo, cut and weld flanges to fit.


DSM's have a decent sized small turbo for a quick spool.


you could always take a HX35 off a cummins if you can find one :grin:

#15 rpholz

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:33 AM

I have put A turbo on my list of considerations. I have A 1989 EA82 turbo car that is complete, meaning its A good running car that is rusted down. I was wondering if the turbo set-up would interchange with my 2.2l. I like the idea of 30+HP on tap!


FYI the ea82 turbo is a labor of love, most will tell you it's garbage and on the flip side there's a bit of a cult following, power can be had reliably but it's not cheap or easy. (Well it is if you have a buttload of parts laying around) but I say since you already have a ej22 just run with it.

#16 AKghandi

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

i have an ea82t and i love it, always starts and has more than enough power.


you could use the turbo off the ea82t on the rear mount for your ej22 if you want it to spool quick. but if you want it to only spool at full throttle go bigger.

#17 Crazyeights

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

In my opinion, try a stock EJ22 first an see how you like it. A 150k used but re-sealed and belted EJ will have SO MUCH power in that car compared with what you are used to.

I have an '83 Wagon with an EJ22, 4 inch lift, 15 inch wheels/tires, FT 4WD, LSD rear, and it has more that enough power for me. You can always swap the EJ22 short block with an EJ25D if you need more power after that.

I have A 1985 EA81 hatchback that I am putting A EJ22 in. The donor car is A 1990 legacy, naturally asperated 2.2l. I plan to totally rebuild the motor, and plan to get as much dependable power out of it as possible. I am going for the most torque I can obtain because I am going to lift it 3-4 inches and of course bigger wheels and tires. Simply put: What kind of TORQUE numbers, and HORSEPOWER numbers can I get out of A 2.2l and maintain that "good ole Subaru dependability".



#18 Hatched

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

Thanks Guys, keep the advice coming. I want to build it naturally aspirated first. I can always put A turbo on later. I would like to have cams that produce more torque. Anybody got any suggestions?

#19 SubiBratz

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

I did a motor swap on my 78 brat. I used a 02 legacy 2.5 block with 91 legacy dual ports heads and I love the power. Mind your car might weigh a little more but for the price of a good used 2.5 block its well worth it..:cool:

#20 Hatched

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:17 PM

I bet that brat is awsome to drive. Do you know what kind of power its making? Is it lifted or stock height?

#21 AKghandi

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:05 PM

delta cams makes a torque grind for the ej22

#22 Hatched

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:39 PM

Thanks, I'll check them out. After seeing your suggestion for delta cams, it rang A bell in my head that I have seen others mention delta cams.:D

#23 SubiBratz

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:55 PM

Dont know the power its making but I know the torque is amazing. I running the legacy 5 speed with 4.11 gears. Didn't do any cams, I think it great the way it is...

#24 Hatched

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:14 AM

Hey, that sounds good. I know that I would like to have lower gears, that makes all the difference in the world. I have A 1999 2.5 RS, that just turned 50K miles and I can't even imagine what my 85 hatchback is going to be with A 2.2l. I'll have to look under the RS to see what gear it has. Also, look at the weight. that rating should be in the door. I know my hatch weighs exactly 2000lbs with A full tank of gas. I know it will weigh more than that when I'm finished with my mods, I'm just trying to compare. WOW, my hatch would be something with the 2.5l in it and its not turbo'd.

#25 monstaru

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:23 AM

A 2,2's "full potential" is completely stock freshened up.

GD, just because 2.2's are plentiful here in the NW does not mean that they are over in Appalachia...

Seriously.The only thing you are going to be able to do to that motor is cams.
They are naturally balanced , so no need for that.
You might as well have gotten a 2.5, or 3.3...
After all, there is no replacement for displacement.

Just sayin..
Reseal it and freshen her up.But unless you find something wrong in the cylinders, I would run it.No reason to break open the block.
cheers




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