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welded front diff?


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32 replies to this topic

#1 torxxx

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:59 PM

been thinking hard about building up a spare tranny for my lifted outback. thoughts of a welded front diff have come into question. Who here has actually ran a 5mt with a welded front diff? (before every says you cant do that, this car never sees pavement. its strictly a dirt/mud rig)

I fully understand that steering is going to suck, no more tight turns, stuffs gonna break but in reality on a trail rig how bad can a welded front diff be? Do the benefits of both front tires spinning vs just one worth doing?

This tranny might see 1000 miles a year offroad, most of it will be straight line mud bogs. It will be a 4.44 5MT converted tranny sitting behind a stock EJ25D or my EG33 if I ever get around to doing the swap.

#2 monstaru

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:16 PM

I really can't remember anyone doing it.
DO IT!!!!!!
I would:grin:
cheers

#3 Tosh

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:08 AM

+1 for "DO IT!!!!!!"

#4 garrettG

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:48 AM

Don't mean to hijack. But how did you convert your 5mt to 4.44?

#5 torxxx

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:27 AM

GarrettG - it uses a 2004 Forester XT ring/pinion. I have not built it yet, but theres a few threads on the forums of guys who have. Monstaru or numbchux were the ones I think found the year/make that had a 4.44 MT

#6 mightGETaSUBARU

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:46 AM

I can tell you this, a welded front diff will make turning almost impossible

#7 monstaru

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:06 AM

I can tell you this, a welded front diff will make turning almost impossible

Heresay, If the steering is setup properly he won't even know it is there.
cheers

#8 Numbchux

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

I have driven a non-Subaru offroad rig with a welded front. It was very frustrating to try to get that thing to go where you wanted it to.


But, each to their own. It sounds like you've weighed the pros and cons. And if you hate it, just throw an open diff in there....

I don't think anyone has done it before, so you'll be the first.

#9 86BRATMAN

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:28 AM

Worst comes to worst you can keep an outer cv end of a dead axle in the car and swap it out if you need to drive it on paved roads.

#10 mightGETaSUBARU

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:33 AM

Heresay, If the steering is setup properly he won't even know it is there.
cheers


heresay??? no, the issue is you will be dragging one tire or the other depending on the direction you want to steer... as a result the vehicle will tend to push forward, instead of actually turning, and if you are on the road, chances are you will destroy the diff in a very short period of time

I can say this, even in the world of fully off road trail and rock driven Jeep we try to stay away from welded front diffs, welded rear diffs are no big deal, aside from a mild change in the feel of the vehicle and some increased tire wear which can be minimized by rotating the tires often

Have you looked into a limited slip for your diff? It would be much more friendly and offer a lot more traction when needed

Short: I say do it so I can see the carnage, because you are gonna wish you didn't do it the first time you try to steer, however if you are planning to go in a straight line it would be fine I guess...

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

Well, I'm assuming your already planning on welding the center diff, so might as well weld up the front.

There was a guy on here who welded the front diff on a FWD EA82 sedan for dirt track racing.

IIRC, it did better than expected....and actually would go anywhere you pointed it.

Could be different with rear axle driveing forwards too.

Can't hurt to try.

#12 El Presidente

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

I say do it!!:headbang:

It sounds like your doing mud drags and a welded front will be great for that. It'll track straight when you get heavy on the pedal. It makes sense to me that a welded front diff in a FWD rig can work, you don't have the power-wheels trying to push the steering-wheels, instead they work together, and drag the rear. If your 2WD is still FWD, I don't think it'll have too much trouble turning in 2wd, even on pavement, but your tires will chirp good. It will still bind side to side...your axles are gonna hate you..:D


Josh

#13 monstaru

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:57 PM

heresay??? no, the issue is you will be dragging one tire or the other depending on the direction you want to steer... as a result the vehicle will tend to push forward, instead of actually turning, and if you are on the road, chances are you will destroy the diff in a very short period of time

I can say this, even in the world of fully off road trail and rock driven Jeep we try to stay away from welded front diffs, welded rear diffs are no big deal, aside from a mild change in the feel of the vehicle and some increased tire wear which can be minimized by rotating the tires often

Have you looked into a limited slip for your diff? It would be much more friendly and offer a lot more traction when needed

Short: I say do it so I can see the carnage, because you are gonna wish you didn't do it the first time you try to steer, however if you are planning to go in a straight line it would be fine I guess...


The mechanics is always there., but really, ALot more traction.Have you ever offroaded a Subaru?Obviously not.i say that because there is an inherent style of driving that comes with offroading a Subaru.Of which it does not appear your gear,tire,comfort driving rump roast has experienced. LOL
Anyone can drive with gears, and anyone can drive with horsepower.
You have no idea what it takes to drive a Roo in tough spots needing both.
The "heresay" part of it is that there is no fix.
If you want something bad enough, you can make it happen.
Which means hydro steering.IT CAN be done.So, why try to demonstratively disenvow a guys idea when there IS a solution to it.
We were never blessed enough to have 50 bajillion companies make it easy for ANYONE to bolt ************ on and think they are a wheeler.

"oh, you won't be able to steer.It will push."
All facts if you find yourself being a *************** and not wanting to tackle the inherent problems.
He is NOT a ***************, and therefore intowith and such, shall do what it takes to make what he wants a reality.
I am here to simply remind him that anything is possible if you set your mind to it.SPECIFICALLY with a NON road vehicle.

Which , in Alaska, (which I have personal experience driving in) is almost 75% winter wheeling.

Just saying.I have had welded diffs in other rigs.I have driven rigs thsat have welded diffs, with steering accoutrements, that did fine.
On top of the fact that he already stated that he was doing MOSTLY straight line bogging......not trail driving.
I actually read the post , before I started in.Just sayin....

Hey Torxy, If'n ya want a hydro steering rack(utilized for rear steer in like an MDX, or something of that sort)I have o ethat I would GIVE you just to prove this ************in heeper wrong.)
cheers

Edited by monstaru, 25 January 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#14 torxxx

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

I've always wanted full hydro steering. I'm getting to the point now with my Outback that I will any benefit or advantage I can take over my ************ty chevy buddies. I'm so tired of hearing them tell me you cant do that with a subaru.

I showed them wrong at the mud bogs this fall, took my loyale with 25" tires and ran and passed 2 out of 4 runs in the 4/6 cylinder class. Next tires above me were 33" Boggers. Pretty cool hearing the crowd stand up and cheer even when I buried the car to the point of climbing out the windows. I think there was 1 Yota running a modified 22R and the rest of the engines were modified 4.3L GM motors. And there I sat with my carb'd EA82 lol, Felt good showing that you dont need big power or big tires to follow with big rigs.

I dont see the point in having 600 HP and 44 inch boggers running off aluminum housed Dana 44's when I can run a stock subaru with a modified gearbox and diffs and turn more heads doing so :headbang:

Steering aside, I'm wondering whats going to break first in the tranny. hehe I'm saying stripped/chipped 1st and second gear and a stripped splines at the center diff housing.

Monstaru - Ice tracking with all 3 diffs welded??? :-p Should be able to do some interesting things with all 4 spinning into a hairpin

#15 NorthWet

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

C'mon, Brian, tell us what you REALLY think! :grin:

Isn't off-roading supposed to be about tinkering, trying to see what works for YOU, rather than what "tuner shops" and unimaginative participants say has worked in the past? Seems to me (disclaimer: I haven't done non-road driving), that others would want to see what happens when somebody else does something different or extreme, so that it if it works they can try it on there own Subaru, or if it doesn't they don't have emptier wallets and a pile of broken parts. Sounds like its wins and grins all around.

I guess that only works if you have have a sube that you offroad.

#16 john in KY

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:49 PM

Won't a differential from an XT6 with the differential lock be the best of both worlds?

#17 Gloyale

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:57 PM

Won't a differential from an XT6 with the differential lock be the best of both worlds?


That's for the center diff.

Not the front diff.

#18 smackvt

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:07 AM

Yah should be cool I drove one and at slow speed in a paved lot it's not grate you really must burn out where ever you go

#19 Uberoo

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:04 AM

Power Steering is a 90000% prerequisite. On my T cased offroader I tried to weld the front diff.I PHYSICALLY COULD NOT TURN THE STEERING WHEEL on my driveway.To go from my driveway to the street required a 20 point turn. power steering on the other hand might allow you to actually turn the tires.

#20 Gloyale

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:42 PM

Power Steering is a 90000% prerequisite. On my T cased offroader I tried to weld the front diff.I PHYSICALLY COULD NOT TURN THE STEERING WHEEL on my driveway.To go from my driveway to the street required a 20 point turn. power steering on the other hand might allow you to actually turn the tires.


His rig won't see streets or driveways....we can assume.

But it's a good point, power steering would be a huge help.

Uberoo, you've got an EA82 crossmember on that thing, why haven't you done power steering?

#21 monstaru

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

Power Steering is a 90000% prerequisite. On my T cased offroader I tried to weld the front diff.I PHYSICALLY COULD NOT TURN THE STEERING WHEEL on my driveway.To go from my driveway to the street required a 20 point turn. power steering on the other hand might allow you to actually turn the tires.


You have to actually be THIS tall to ride this ride.And not a puss.

Torxx will be fine...:D

#22 ivans imports

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

installing a quaff posi unit into a deul range will lett you know how it drives

#23 Uberoo

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:15 PM

I still have the EA81 front crossmember

It the steering wheel WILL NOT PHYSICALLY turn without powersteering.I had a friend help me push the car when I didn't have the motor running.He can bench press a EA81 and he couldn't turn the steering wheel.
I am just saying this because some hard pack dirt is just as grippy as pavement.

#24 subimonster

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:11 AM

In my experience with building any type of vehicle is just do it and see how it works!!! if not that is why they have junk yards so you can fix the mistake for cheap! I say have at it!:drunk:

#25 ivans imports

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

i did take a 4eat and add two extra spiders to it to lock it up but was undriveabble couldent turn but it did make it a posi




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