Caboobaroo Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 OK so for all of those who know and that don't know, I'm planning on building an EA81TT. The only problem is that the stock Subaru turbos are a little too big for my twin turbo idea and so I was thinking of something a little smaller. I have a few ideas but also input would be greatly appreciated. So I was thinking a couple turbos off of the list: Chevy Sprint Turbo VW turbo diesel Saab? Anything else that has smaller turbo than a Subaru? Would any of these work/not work? Thanks for the input guys Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarubrat Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Well that depends, are you looking to go sequential or parallel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I can't offer any advice on specific turbos to use, but I have heard that you should never take a turbo from a diesel and put it on a gas engine. They aren't designed for the higher exhaust temperatures and tend to fail. Probably your best bet is to find a little three-cylinder turbo engine and rob it from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geck512 Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Pretty sure he was going for parallel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyruss Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I have no actual figures or data but I would think two stock turbos would work. why not a single bigger turbo? less plumbing problems to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scooby Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I have no actual figures or data but I would think two stock turbos would work. why not a single bigger turbo? less plumbing problems to deal with. plus with the bigger turbo its much less turbo lag compared to the twin, also again much less fabrication. but it still would be awsome to see a TT subaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 plus with the bigger turbo its much less turbo lag compared to the twin, also again much less fabrication. but it still would be awsome to see a TT subaru Mostly FALSE. One big turbo will usually take longer to spool than 2 small turbo's. Twin turbo'd cars usually go to single turbo when they want better top end breathing. In the world of turbo's its almost always comprimising accelerationg vs. top end speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 OK, this project is one of those "I'm doin it for the fun of it" I'm not really looking for more HP or torque, just for the simple fact of doing it and being able to say that I did it. For those who do not know, I am a Camaro nut. So the wagon is one of those cars that will help me stay out of trouble on the road where the Camaro......we all know what 1100HP on the street might be able to do:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarubrat Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I hear you, and I am 100% behind the "just because" engineering philosophy. Dual/single, large/small is always a trade off. The tendancy in turbo charging is to oversize the turbo for bragging rights about being in the efficency curve at redline in top gear. How much time do you spend doing that Vs accelerating for a few seconds then cruising? Many aftermarket turbo cars are overturboed. My daily driver Impreza specs out at 300 and some change. The turbo is rather small for what you would expect, smaller exhaust housing with a larger compressor hybrid. I am out of the efficiency and thermal ideals while at max boost and high RPM but in the real world where I pass cars, leave lights etc. I am treated to an effect like driving a big N/A engine with just about no lag and substantial boost available virtually off idle. Comprimise. The first real thing you need to decide is if you are running a sequential or parallel setup. That will change your turbo needs. Lets say you are running parallel, I would suggest a smaller than stock turbo. However if you are running sequential then I would say the stock one combined with a cheap and pleantiful TD03/4 would be a great combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 so you want to make a turbo car twce as troublesom? the last two times somebody offered up this idea, i said stuff along the lines of, this is dumb, and all that. because i think it wont work good either way you do it. so everybody called me a moron, but i have yet to see a twin turbo ea82. i dont think you wuld have room with steering and all, and if you dont wedge an intercooler in there, its useless anyway. i'll trade you a t3, or a dsm for any twin turbo setup anyday, but... there was a 3 cylinder, i believe isuzu had them, not impulse, but earlier than that. the turbo inlet was about the size of a quarter, with a tiny compressor, that is the only one smaller than a subaru i have ever seen. even the one off of a 1.6 isuzu is the same sizeas subarus mazdas/ford have the same general sized ihi turbos as subarus. or, maybe get two motorcycle turbos, made for a 750, that would fit the bill. honda and kawi both made them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 you could always go staged as well where one turbo is small for fast spool up and the second turbo is bigger for more pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subi81 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 DO IT! DO IT! I agree, why the 4377 did we go to the moon, why is there a jet powered big rig, why did someone make the spork, Because it was there, I say go for it!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted April 13, 2004 Author Share Posted April 13, 2004 well I feel this would be a great learning experience and I have researched turbos quite a bit and I also did a report on Thermodynamics and Turbocharging fall term for a history class. As for the room issue, room doesn't matter especially when you make your own brackets, up and down pipe, etc. Also with the twice a troublesome issues, this motor will NOT go into the car until I get it running on a running stand I am currently building and that goes for the tranny too. So call my ideas dumb but I feel that it can be done with time. I can do it without a lot fo money because I can fabricate any parts I need (thank god for CNC mills and lathes). Oh and another thing, how hard is it to find some of these turbos like the ones on motorcycles or anything else that would have small turbos? Do you think I could do it with two stock EA82 turbos and hopefully get rid of some of the turbo lag? I'm planning on making this a parallel setup not a sequential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 thats the other thing, near impossible to find. if you want a fun project, put togetherer a reely nice turbo system, with a big fmic, blow off valve, and t birt turbo. you will be left with a system with lotsa hp, quick spool up, and look alot nicer, with alot less headaches. but if you do do it, post some pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Sorry I didn't read this earlier. I can't believe all the misinformation that is going on here. Porsche first started out with a single turbo in the race cars, but after two years went to two smaller turbos, not only did they increase the power of the engines, but also increased the top speed of these cars. I don't know whether it had anything to do with it, but I wrote Porsche a letter when I first heard about their single turbo racing program and told them that my research (a single versus twin turbo 327 Chevy) proved better overall performance. I never got an return letter, but two years later (about the right time to develop a new engine) they were racing the twin turbo and kicking butt. First you need to get some books on turbocharging, Corky's book (not me by the way) is a great start, but I don't agree with some of his thoughts (so what else is new). I have over 35 years of experience working with turbocharged cars, when I started, everything was trial and error, there were not books to help out. Remember, the turbo on the EA82 and EA81 was tuned for an 1800cc engine, if you are going to use two, you need ones that are tuned for a 900cc engine (a 1000cc engine would do also). So that is where you need to look. Honda had a turbo 750 bike, I think that one would be a little too small, also a different power curve, it would be tuned for higher RPMs. Heat is not the problem when using a diesel turbo, the problem is that diesels reach their power band at lower RPMs, and therefore the turbos used on them spool quicker, and peak out earlier then needed on a gas engine. Now if you were creating a progressive setup, the diesel (low RPM) turbo would be a great first turbo and a motorcycle (high RPM) turbo a great second one. You also didn't say which car you are putting this in, hopefully an earlier car without a brake booster, or you will have problems with fitting the turbo on the left side. Brake line heat sheilding is going to a major factor when placing the left turbo. I'd like to see picture of the in progress work, maybe I can give you some pointers as you go along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 Thanks for your help and guidance Corky! This is exactly what I needed to hear. So you asked what car this motor was planning on going into. I'm planning on dropping it into my 79 4wd wagon. My thought on the driver side turbo is since its not going to be in a factory location, I in theory can place it higher, lower, back, front etc. couldn't I? Also thanks for the info on the diesel vs. gasloine turbos, I wasn't quite sure how different they were. About this book. Where can I possibly find it? Ebay, an online bookstore, or should Borders near my house carry it? Do you have any ideas on what small motors (900-1000) came with turbos that would work for my project? Again, thank you Corky for your words of wisdom:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotocon1 Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 the turbo you are looking for is a T2 out of I think cars like the plymoth sundance, dodge Omni GLH and other diamler-chrisler cars. They put these turbos in anything from minivans to there newyorker. I will do some more searching in my records because they did upgrade to a T3 later in the engine production line of the 2.2. Its I think the smallest mass produest turbo put into production. hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 So I did some searching on the bay of e for turbos and I came up with some ideas and questions.... So I was looking at Garrett turbos and I came across the Garrett T25 and the T28. What does the second number mean? Would a twin turbo setup from a Mistubishi 3000GT VR4TT work? Since its a v6 3.0 liter with a turbo on each bank, that makes it run 3 cylinders (1.5 liters) instead of a stock Subaru turbo which runs 4 cylinders (1.8 liters). So in reality, that should make the turbo smaller than a stock Subaru (IHIRB5 I believe) turbo right? Just a few questions since I was doin some poking around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 I can't remember the name of the book, Tex has a copy, he should be able to help you there. As for the Mitsu 3000 GT VR4 turbo (I used to have one of these great cars), like you said, they are for 1500cc engines, but that is half again as too large, you need to find a turbo for a 900cc to 1100cc engine. Do a search for turbocharged motorcycles, that may help, or for a company that sells turbo kits for motorcycles. The main thing you need to be concerned with is the A/R ratio of the turbo (read the book). You might find the right size turbo but the A/R will be wrong, so you'll have to change the impaler housing, compressor housings or both to get the correct ratio. Does the engine you are planning to use have the starter in the center or to the driver side? Center would be better, it would give you more room to work with. If it is the center, you can get it far enough away from everything to minimize sheilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotocon1 Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 You might try looking for some old Chevy sprint turbo cars. they had a 1.0L engine with a turbo on it making a wopping 65 or 75 HP. I think that is the closest you are going to get with out searching internationaly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Here is a link to Corky's book, http://howstuffworks.shopping.com/xMPF-Maximum-Boost--Designing--Testing--and-Installing-Turbocharger-Systems~PD-639725245313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 Cool thanks Corky for the link to the book. I'm gonna go look at the car that has the motor in it today. I believe its a starter on the side (84 4wd turbowagon). I'm gonna see about getting that book. Also I heard that down in OZland, they have Dhaihastu Charades that are 3 cylinder 1.0 liter turbocharged cars. I might be able to get a couple from there but it'll take forever to get them (the only draw back). So, I might have my hands on ONE Chevy Sprint turbo but does anyone else know where another one is? Maybe 2 so I can have a spare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 cool project! I was going to suggest a Sprint turbo as well. I've thought about twin turbo subarus before, as lots of us have, and I think it would be easiest to find room under the hood for all of that if the car were lifted due to dropping the engine. I see that you're lowering the car though, and that won't affect the room in the engine bay the way that lift kits do. hehe. you could put a lift kit on to drop the engine, and then lower the car that would give you a stock ride height and a dropped engine for more room.. just kidding.. good luck with that! I'd also like to "vote" for a staged setup, and suggest an oil cooler assembly.. talk to WJM about that if you like. and post lots of pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 I believe the Dhaihastu engine is the same one Chevy used in the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 cool thats what I needed to know. I hope I can get to the yard today but its friggin raining and Andrew and I are workin on an 85 wagon right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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