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TDC needed for Engine removal?


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26 replies to this topic

#1 Dinky26

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:50 PM

Pulling engine on an EA82 to replace HG.

Does the flywheel need to be at TDC before I remove the engine?

If it does I can't seem to get it to roll over to get to that point.

HELP:-\

#2 NorthWet

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:57 PM

Nope. TDC is irrelevant for anything you are likely to do except for setting ignition timing.

#3 Dinky26

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:06 PM

I do have to pull the timing covers and belts too, right?

#4 NorthWet

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:42 PM

To replace the HGs or belts: yes.

When the belts are put back on, the significant timing marks are scribed onto the rim of the flywheel, and the flywheel can only fit on one way due to an asymmetrical bolt pattern.

This part really is foolproof. Until you put on the second t-belt, where the manual can be vague on a step.

#5 ShawnW

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:41 AM

I often do turn it when still in the car because I can't put the engine on a stand to work on it with the flywheel installed.

#6 man on the moon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:25 PM

No.

And if HG is all you're doing, it can be done with the motor in the car, no need to pull it unless you really want to. The one valve cover bolt at the back of the driver side cover (by the disty) is a pain in the butt, but a little patience and a long wrench will do it.

You will have to line things up to put the timing belts on, but it's quite clearly marked and relatively simple compared to some cars.

#7 moosens

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:35 AM

I completely understand taking it out to work on. Get the rear main too. Clutch time? Enjoy! Hey I have a new water pump for sale if that helps.

#8 scoobiedubie

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

You will want to center the flywheel timing mark, on the center of the three hash marks on the flywheel. Those sets of hash marks occur on opposite sides of the flywheel. Since you will be pulling your driver side camtower that has the distributor, you will want to leave the distributor installed in that camtower. If you have a rotor, note that position as well. Also note whether the timing holes in the camtower timing belt pulleys, are either straight up, or straight down. If the left side is straight up, then the right side will be straight down. Those timing holes have to align exactly with notches in the rear black plastic timing belt covers.

If you are an expert, you don't have to align the flywheel timing mark with anything. But if you aren't an expert which appears to be the case, then you will pay dearly for it later.

#9 NorthWet

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:23 PM

You will want to center the flywheel timing mark, on the center of the three hash marks on the flywheel. ...
If you are an expert, you don't have to align the flywheel timing mark with anything. But if you aren't an expert which appears to be the case, then you will pay dearly for it later.


I do not understand what concern is trying to be expressed here. The engine doesn't care in what crank-angle state that it was removed. There is no alignment data that will be lost and prove not-easy to recover when you are ready to put the belts back on.

I DO agree to not remove the distributor from the cam case. There is rarely any reason to do so, and it just complicates things by making you have to set the ignition timing afterwards (though it should be checked anyway).

#10 Subruise

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

also, you wont pay too dearly if you screw it up, youll just have to read the directions again. the ea82 doesnt bend valves. definitely pull the motor. it doenst add much time to the job, and takes loads of time off bending over

#11 Dinky26

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:02 PM

You will want to center the flywheel timing mark, on the center of the three hash marks on the flywheel. Those sets of hash marks occur on opposite sides of the flywheel. Since you will be pulling your driver side camtower that has the distributor, you will want to leave the distributor installed in that camtower. If you have a rotor, note that position as well. Also note whether the timing holes in the camtower timing belt pulleys, are either straight up, or straight down. If the left side is straight up, then the right side will be straight down. Those timing holes have to align exactly with notches in the rear black plastic timing belt covers.

If you are an expert, you don't have to align the flywheel timing mark with anything. But if you aren't an expert which appears to be the case, then you will pay dearly for it later.


You are most very CORRECT I'm by no means an expert:grin:really my first time to see....get this deep into an engine, have done most of my routine maintenance up to now but nothing like this, SO YES I am very very GREEN BEHIND THE EARS ON THIS SUBJECT.

That being thank you GD for saying that I won't have screwed myself to bad, ditsy is off, t belts are off, cam towers off, heads off... So yes I'll be doing a timing from the get go.

The thing that brought this thread to a HEAD was a statement in the Haynes manual that said flywheel needed to be at TDC, well silly me for taking that to heart.

I'm sure I'm going to be needing some more assistance here in the near future as soon as I get the heads prepped and ect, prolly be a few days before I get all that done now cause I have to go back to work tomorrow :mad:ugh, amazing how much damage one can do in 2 days:clap:

I'm good to here any pointers on doing the clutch as well, another thing I've never done-seen before either. Noticed when I lifted the engine out that one of the cv boots had come off like the clip fell off or undid itself....ugh suppose I should deal with that one when engine is out too.

Oh yeah one other thing does this look normal for the tops of the piston heads?
Drivers side
Posted Image

Passenger side

Posted Image

#12 Subruise

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:12 PM

they look better than some of the ones ive done. youre fine, take your time, read lots

#13 Dinky26

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:28 PM

Thanks man, I need to remind myself on that one....TAKE MY TIME....:grin:

#14 Subruise

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:15 AM

dp'd

#15 Dinky26

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

I completely understand taking it out to work on. Get the rear main too. Clutch time? Enjoy! Hey I have a new water pump for sale if that helps.


How does one tell if the water pump is needing replaced?

How much do you want for it?

#16 NickNakorn

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:26 PM

Those pistons look pretty good, I've seen a hell of a lot worse. The will clean up well but check the ring grooves for spec when you gap the rings and the little end bearings for wear (I'm in UK and I know out car language is not the same - wrist pin bearing in USA?).

Posted Image

As you can see, mine were more carbonated but cleaned up well using fine wire wool and spray carb cleaning solvent. Your pistons look almost 'too' clean - perhaps 'washed' by hot water from a gasket leak?

My rebuild pics at http://www.nagara.co.uk/carhome.htm

#17 blasdgag

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:48 PM

I'm pretty much in the same spot as you, dink. I'm doing the head gaskets, and got into it pretty deep before I decided to check how I SHOULD be doing it. As a result: I removed the distributor, cam pulleys are off, and didn't pay much attention to timing marks when disassembling. Anyway, I will be starting from scratch with the timing, and since the OP said he will need to do this too I decided to ask it here. So what do I need to do to get the timing right? I feel like i need to first rotate the crank to the right position (flywheel timing mark?), then put cam towers/pulleys on and rotate to the right position, but I don't know how to deal with the distributor. Thanks in advance!

#18 NorthWet

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:27 PM

To find TDC on compression stroke, from http://www.ultimates...ed#entry1146706 , Post#6 by MilesFox:

 

"Lineup your marks so that the distributor side cam dot is up. then
continue to rotate the flywheel til you see the 0 deg mark, then drop 
in the disty."

 

 

To align distributor, from http://www.ultimates...or#entry1001518 Post#2 by MilesFox:

 

"The rotor will be pointing at the master cylinder. The rotation is
clockwise 1-3-2-4. #1 cylinder is on the left front if you are looking
at the engine. #3 behind it, #2 at the right front, and #4 near the distributor.
If you have pulled the disty, you may feel 'in between' notches for the
gear to get the rotor just right. The rotor points at the master
cylinder just past the screw/clip for the cap. Some times an aftermarket
cap may be marked wrong for the cylinder numbers, since they
cross-reference with isuzus and other 80's oddities."



#19 blasdgag

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

Thanks for the response North! The only thing I am still confused about now is the relationship between the position of the crank shaft and the position of the camshaft(s). With the center of the III marks on the flywheel aligned, do I align the ditsy-side cam gear mark at 12 o'clock, and the other cam at 6 o'clock? And I read somewhere that there are two sets of flywheel timing marks, on opposite sides of the flywheel, is that true? I'm sure this is a noob question, but I have not had luck searching for the answer.

#20 NorthWet

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

Are you trying to set the t-belt or the distributor?

 

For the t-belt, you set the flywheel to the middle of the III hash marks; only one set of hashmarks, no way to confuse.  Put on the rearward of the 2 t-belts, and tension it,  Turn the crankshaft 360 degrees until the III hash marks appear again, and install the forward of the 2 t-belts, and tension it.  Rotate the engine and recheck the alignment:  Do not be surprised if you are off a tooth on one or both sides.  If you are off, just repeat the alignment procedure until it is right.

 

If you are talking distributor, then you want the flywheel III hashmarks to line up, and the dot on the Distributor side cam sprocket to be up at 12-o'clock position; if not, rotate that crankshaft 360 degrees until it is up.  Then, continue rotating the crank/flywheel until you see the TDC timing marks and align that to 0 (TDC).

 

Follow MilesFox's instructions and things should be fine.


Edited by NorthWet, 05 March 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#21 MilesFox

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:50 PM

Thanks for the response North! The only thing I am still confused about now is the relationship between the position of the crank shaft and the position of the camshaft(s). With the center of the III marks on the flywheel aligned, do I align the ditsy-side cam gear mark at 12 o'clock, and the other cam at 6 o'clock? And I read somewhere that there are two sets of flywheel timing marks, on opposite sides of the flywheel, is that true? I'm sure this is a noob question, but I have not had luck searching for the answer.

The center marks on the flywheel are to position the crank and the cams relatively to eachother before installing the belts.

 

It seems confusing with the cam marks, but you are installing one belt at a time, making a full rotation of the crank for each. any of the 2 timing belts are installed with the cam facing up each round. this results in the forst cam pointing down when you go to install the other timing belt.

 

If you study the rotation of the works, it will all make sense.

 

In regards to installing the disty, you will either do this before removing all of the timing belts, or after installing all of them.

 

once you install the belts, rotate the crank so that the marks are in the same position you started with when installing the belts. From there, rotate the crank til you get your o deg mark, then drop in the disty.

 

You should be aware of the timing belt video on youtube. just search 'ea82 timing belt procedure' or 'art of subaru maintenance'



#22 Dinky26

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

Awesome! Thanks guys this will make my life hugely easier!!!! Once I get to that point, haven't done much since I pulled her apart other than work, move snow, eat and sleep.

#23 blasdgag

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

Yes thanks tons! I will be attempting reassembly hopefully this weekend, so we'll see how it goes :) Good luck with your rebuild Dink.

#24 leniac

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:23 PM

men, look for the miles fox┬┤s videos on youtube... they do the same job step by step and well explained....



#25 ShawnW

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:47 PM

I am amazed that two responses with "go to you tube" didn't include a link to the video.  

 






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