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Loyale more trouble than it's worth?


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43 replies to this topic

#26 ivantruckman

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

I have rescued 2 loyales with the 3 speed auto , there good cars, and I routinely go 65 mph @ 4100 rpm , all day long , the one has 216k on the original engine and transmission.

#27 NickNakorn

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:17 PM

Rust,
your wagon looks great. But does the front bull-bar compromise your approach angle when off road?

#28 l75eya

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:58 PM

I'm looking at ~3100 RPM @ 50mph, on a flat. I have not dared to drive this thing much faster except for brief periods for testing it. It will do 70 but I don't think it likes it. I feel bad for it just doing 50.. I can count each gear/shift up through the range and it IS hitting three gears. Fluids are perfect, etc. I just want to know if I should be apprehensive about running it at, say, 60 mph, where it's revving about 3700... The mechanic in me says even the 3100 at 50 is too much (considering I commute 60 miles/day) but are these little engines simply ok with that? Is it really just normal to let it run that RPM for an hour and not worry about it? (assuming oil pressures are fine and all..) I know these engines are short-stroke and all, but I really don't want to burn up rings and whatnot. Just seems so wrong to me to hear it whine and drone away constantly at that kind of RPM, yet I know this was the design of the car... I feel like I'm just revving it and killing it. Looking for some reassurance perhaps?!


These cars don't scoff at running high RPMS for extended periods of time at all. Only thing I can say is keep up with your timing belt replacements. If anything is going to go from running high rpms for awhile, it's one of your timing belts if they haven't been replaced and are old and worn.

Though, to re-assure you, our Loyale was driven regularly on the highway for over an hour commute DAILY for 2 years. 65 mph is a comfortable speed (you'll be just under 4k at 65). As I said in my first post here, click my screen-name and you'll see a picture of the Loyale breaking 100 mph :)

But really, you don't need to worry about driving 65 mph on the highway. You can even cruise at 70 for awhile if you wanted to. It's nothing to worry about.
I remember when we first got the Loyale, I had the same reservations about bringing it up to speed you did haha

The ONLY thing that isn't good about the engine running so fast at those relatively low speeds is gas mileage, but even that doesn't really get too bad. I remember when we took the Loyale to Canada (10 hour drive. That's 10 hours of 4,000 rpms by the way) we got on average 24 mpg.

#29 l75eya

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:00 PM

Glen,

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#30 GlenSz

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

@Rust, your Loyale looks amazing! :headbang: and yeah, same year and color, but set up the way i've been admiring other loyales online, when searching for pics. especially feeling the diamond plate job on the typical rust spots. the matte finish hood is a nice touch too. is it lifted at all? what size tires? curious if i was to get bigger tires than the (stock?) 165's that the 3AT came with VS. the 175-85's the manuals have, (thanks for that info @CoyotePaws, definitely been using all those little bits and facts to help me figure things out), how or if bigger tires would help w/ achieving more comfortable higher speeds.

@Tofutti i'm beginning to think this is the major reservation of first-time loyale drivers/owners. i initially thought, when driving mine back to NYC from pennsylvania that it maybe was stuck in 4X4 mode even though the 4WD lights on the dash WEREN'T on. either that or i wasn't making it into 3rd gear. but i've counted many times now the smooth shifting between 1st, 2nd, and finally 3rd.

this leads me to wonder why i forgot about owning a '87 Dodge Colt manual hatchback that only had 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears, and reverse where 5th gear would normally be on a 5-speed manual. the whole steering wheel would start shaking once you started taking it above about 65mph. i drove that car out to Boulder, CO from NJ where i bought it for $500. i even drove it into the mountains occasionally while out there and eventually driving it back to the east coast. i will never gain a better appreciation for vehicles that cruise smoothly, quietly at 80mph and have cruise-control after those long-hauls.

but after lots of reassuring words from the experts on this message board and reasserted by every other mechanic i've spoken with, that's just how this car was made, the national speed limit only being 55mph when this car first came out. it's definitely boasting some of the best MPG stats for a 4WD vehicle out there, particularly for such an older car.

@NickNakorn i read your webpage intently, especially "the Story / the Plan" section, in which you describe this very drawback as being the only thing these Subarus can't do.

In good condition, though, these cars might just be one of the best ever made. Not only are they astonishingly capable but they are the last Subaru to be designed with a philosophy that encompassed practicality and simple elegance with engineering brilliance other manufacturers rarely match. They really can do anything one might wish except go very fast.

thanks much for sharing here, and to everyone else who addressed @Tofutti's inquiry about running it for extended periods of time at 38-4200RPM/55-70mph, which was actually a question i was gonna get to as well, so thanks for putting it out there @tofutti. :clap:

waiting to hear more back from another mechanic that's a non-dealership professional, and a family friend. might throw down some money on the major stuff that's too much for me to learn/handle at first on my own. but really looking forward to getting more into learning about this car and how to work on it myself. i just need some experience & guidance, not much encouragement needed, @l75eya

thanks again everyone, i'll keep checking back!

-glen

#31 NorthWet

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

REALLY short-stroke, piston speed and piston feet-per-mile are pretty low. Good metallurgy in the cylinders, so wear is minimal. You nerves will wear out from the RPMs before the engine will. As stated, I have had no issues running at 80-85 in an 3AT equipped sedan.

Change the tranny fluid regularly, and try to not overheat the fluid.

#32 l75eya

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:06 PM

Ever want to work on your car yourself but would like to have some extra hands to help out, let me know! I love working on these cars.

#33 NickNakorn

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:16 PM

Glen, thanks for looking at my website. Of course it all depends on one's definition of 'fast' ! While my Subaru is in the process of being fixed I'm using my old Honda CRX; fast compared to the Subaru but slow compared to (say) a modern Aston. But all 1.8 EA82 wagons I've owned would do the magic ton if required!

#34 Rust

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:50 AM

No my loyale is not lifted, and the rims/tires are from a brat. I drive this loyale close to 100 miles per day. I've had many ea82 subarus they are good engines as long as you keep up the maintainence. My engine leaks oil a little also, but it helps the undercarraige fight the sand and salt. As long as you change your fluids and keep an eye on the levels your subaru should go for many miles.

#35 88wacaroo

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:09 PM

@Glensz,Like everybody else says SUBIEs like 3-5500,mine ALWAYS SEE 5000 and their happy :) @Rust I like your comment about how oil leaks protect the undercarrige-Funny!! The one thing about the autos you should know is the governer can go bad on them but they are really easy to change 175eya should be able to tell you about this.I"ve gotten auto cars for cheap because shops told people the trans was shot-just a heads up about a issue that might pop up no biggie! Looks like you scored a nice car though!! You"ll be addicted before long though HAHA!



#36 l75eya

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:22 PM

Never had that problem with the apple coring though. I've seen how easy it is to replace the governor gear though; pretty much as simple as changing a spark plug.

Few more tid-bits; If you're cruising at 25ish and want to accelerate quickly, just drop the trans into 2nd. It's not very responsive even if you mash the gas, it'll probably just keep trying to pull in 3rd.
And (idk, mine is like this) do not ever, ever, ever shift the transmission into 1st while you're rolling more than like 2 mph. It will NOT be a pleasant experience.



#37 MR_Loyale

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:49 PM


These cars don't scoff at running high RPMS for extended periods of time at all. Only thing I can say is keep up with your timing belt replacements. If anything is going to go from running high rpms for awhile, it's one of your timing belts if they haven't been replaced and are old and worn.

Though, to re-assure you, our Loyale was driven regularly on the highway for over an hour commute DAILY for 2 years. 65 mph is a comfortable speed (you'll be just under 4k at 65). As I said in my first post here, click my screen-name and you'll see a picture of the Loyale breaking 100 mph :)

But really, you don't need to worry about driving 65 mph on the highway. You can even cruise at 70 for awhile if you wanted to. It's nothing to worry about.
I remember when we first got the Loyale, I had the same reservations about bringing it up to speed you did haha

The ONLY thing that isn't good about the engine running so fast at those relatively low speeds is gas mileage, but even that doesn't really get too bad. I remember when we took the Loyale to Canada (10 hour drive. That's 10 hours of 4,000 rpms by the way) we got on average 24 mpg.

 

I must not be doing it right. I clicked your screen name and couldn't find the picture of the 100 mph Loyale. You peaked my interest with a 100mph Loyale, but I cannot find it. :(



#38 Tofutti

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:49 PM

Never had that problem with the apple coring though. I've seen how easy it is to replace the governor gear though; pretty much as simple as changing a spark plug.

Few more tid-bits; If you're cruising at 25ish and want to accelerate quickly, just drop the trans into 2nd. It's not very responsive even if you mash the gas, it'll probably just keep trying to pull in 3rd.
And (idk, mine is like this) do not ever, ever, ever shift the transmission into 1st while you're rolling more than like 2 mph. It will NOT be a pleasant experience.

 

LoL, Mine either stays in current gear, or drops itself down one gear based on how fast I drop the pedal. At 25~ish if I MASH it, it'll kick down. If I take about one second to travel the pedal to the floor, it'll stay in current gear and pull. Regarding downshifting to first.... I blew a front brake line a couple days ago.. One of the front calipers sticks on a little when I use/release the e-brake so I was using engine braking as much as I could. I kept it in 4WD to balance what was left of braking ability.  Whilst slowing down for an intersection, (I've never tested my engine compression but I'm gonna guess it's just fine.) fifteen miles per hour into first skidded all four wheels for a second while engine came up to speed.  Over the years, with many different types of vehicles that I've been intentionally evil to, still had not prepared me to expect that out of this little 1.8... Especially at 15 miles per hour..



#39 MR_Loyale

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

@Rust, your Loyale looks amazing! :headbang: and yeah, same year and color, but set up the way i've been admiring other loyales online, when searching for pics. especially feeling the diamond plate job on the typical rust spots. the matte finish hood is a nice touch too. is it lifted at all? what size tires? curious if i was to get bigger tires than the (stock?) 165's that the 3AT came with VS. the 175-85's the manuals have, (thanks for that info @CoyotePaws, definitely been using all those little bits and facts to help me figure things out), how or if bigger tires would help w/ achieving more comfortable higher speeds.

@Tofutti i'm beginning to think this is the major reservation of first-time loyale drivers/owners. i initially thought, when driving mine back to NYC from pennsylvania that it maybe was stuck in 4X4 mode even though the 4WD lights on the dash WEREN'T on. either that or i wasn't making it into 3rd gear. but i've counted many times now the smooth shifting between 1st, 2nd, and finally 3rd.

this leads me to wonder why i forgot about owning a '87 Dodge Colt manual hatchback that only had 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears, and reverse where 5th gear would normally be on a 5-speed manual. the whole steering wheel would start shaking once you started taking it above about 65mph. i drove that car out to Boulder, CO from NJ where i bought it for $500. i even drove it into the mountains occasionally while out there and eventually driving it back to the east coast. i will never gain a better appreciation for vehicles that cruise smoothly, quietly at 80mph and have cruise-control after those long-hauls.

but after lots of reassuring words from the experts on this message board and reasserted by every other mechanic i've spoken with, that's just how this car was made, the national speed limit only being 55mph when this car first came out. it's definitely boasting some of the best MPG stats for a 4WD vehicle out there, particularly for such an older car.

@NickNakorn i read your webpage intently, especially "the Story / the Plan" section, in which you describe this very drawback as being the only thing these Subarus can't do. thanks much for sharing here, and to everyone else who addressed @Tofutti's inquiry about running it for extended periods of time at 38-4200RPM/55-70mph, which was actually a question i was gonna get to as well, so thanks for putting it out there @tofutti. :clap:

waiting to hear more back from another mechanic that's a non-dealership professional, and a family friend. might throw down some money on the major stuff that's too much for me to learn/handle at first on my own. but really looking forward to getting more into learning about this car and how to work on it myself. i just need some experience & guidance, not much encouragement needed, @l75eya

thanks again everyone, i'll keep checking back!

-glen

 

When going to mechanics, be sure to get someone who has worked on these engines before. Those who have not will look at all the oil spots and declare it a worthless cause. Those that have will undertand what is critical and what is not. Non-subaru or even subaru dealer mechanics will all give you premature eulogies for the car.



#40 88wacaroo

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:02 PM

Tofutti...A general Guess here......15mph down to 1st I think is about 4500? It"s been years since I"VE Drove A Auto :eek: Just to Gutless for me-Sorry! If I remember correctly hold {Stand On} gas Pedal down til it shifts-55-6000 is good for 25-30mph and a short movie :popcorn:



#41 l75eya

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:26 PM

I must not be doing it right. I clicked your screen name and couldn't find the picture of the 100 mph Loyale. You peaked my interest with a 100mph Loyale, but I cannot find it. :(

Ah, because of the forum change. Here ya go. ;)
bgimg-29263.jpg



#42 l75eya

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:33 PM

Tofutti...A general Guess here......15mph down to 1st I think is about 4500? It"s been years since I"VE Drove A Auto :eek: Just to Gutless for me-Sorry! If I remember correctly hold {Stand On} gas Pedal down til it shifts-55-6000 is good for 25-30mph and a short movie :popcorn:

Haha, I've tried flooring it as I shift into 1st to see if that works, but there's still a gut wrenching lurch when it engages, so I no longer ever shift into first gear with the loyale unless I'm practically stationary.
And about 15mph @ 4500 in first, I know the 5 speed has different gear ratios, but I've hit 40 in 1st gear with the GL. It was screaming at about 6,500 rpms or so, but it did it. I learned first-hand what everybody means about the intakes on these engines. There is just not enough air going to the engine at and above about 5800 rpms. From 3.5k and up it pulls swell, but at soon as it passes that 5, it's just making a lot of noise but not really gaining any more speed noticeably.



#43 MR_Loyale

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:11 PM

Ah, because of the forum change. Here ya go. ;)
bgimg-29263.jpg

 

COOL! I love it!

 

I see you too have the check engine light. Let me guess, 34 EGR Solenoid??



#44 l75eya

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:35 PM

Ding Ding! lol bratman has a solenoid for me though, of unknown condition. Hope it works!
 






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