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Timing Issues


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20 replies to this topic

#1 SubieTrav

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:27 PM

Just finishing doing a head gasket on a 96 OB 2.5. I got the timing belt installed and the timing marks were correct after pulling the pin and doing the 90 degree counter clockwise, 180 clockwise turns. I figured everything was set. Car wouldn't start. It turns over uneven, sometimes it sounds good and then sometimes it sounds week.
Battery is fully charged, everything is connected except alternator, PS, AC, purge canister, radiator.
Any ideas before I pull a head off to see if I bent valves.

#2 89Ru

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:04 PM

maybe it slipped a tooth. even one tooth off and it sounds bad starting from the low compression. double check timing by counting teeth. on the DOHC, its 51 teeth on driver side, 54.5 teeth on pass side from crank to top cam notch.

also in case you didn't do this, loosen tensioner bolts and wedge a screwdriver to lever the tensioner to the pass side, and tighten up the tensioner bolts. helps tighten up the belt. i rotate twice around clockwise to take up the slack before buttoning things up.

Edited by 89Ru, 02 February 2013 - 10:13 PM.


#3 Fairtax4me

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:34 PM

Are you sure you used the correct marks?
One tooth off it should still run, but it sounds like you might be way off.
Did you remove the camshaft sprockets to replace the oil seals?

#4 The Dude

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 09:09 AM

Don't go pulling the heads right away, unless you just like hearing your ratchet go "click-click-click". You can do a compression, or leak down, test to find out what you need to know with a lot less time and effort.

#5 davebugs

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:17 AM

Just finishing doing a head gasket on a 96 OB 2.5. I got the timing belt installed and the timing marks were correct after pulling the pin and doing the 90 degree counter clockwise, 180 clockwise turns. I figured everything was set. Car wouldn't start. It turns over uneven, sometimes it sounds good and then sometimes it sounds week.
Battery is fully charged, everything is connected except alternator, PS, AC, purge canister, radiator.
Any ideas before I pull a head off to see if I bent valves.


You missed a step, maybe used arrows instead of dots and hash marks(or something else is off), or the engine was already trashed.

Those are the only options.

#6 SubieTrav

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:40 PM

I did find the service manuals elsewhere on this forum, downloaded and followed them. I put a straw in the #1 cylinder to find TDC. Aligned the double marks on the cam sprockets at the 6 o'clock position. The tb is tight all the way around. I'll do a compression test today. I didn't replace the cam seals, there was no leaks before.
The car ran great before, just had a head gasket leak.

#7 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:49 PM

You don't use TDC for timing belt alignment. You use the mark on the crank sprocket - which puts all four cylinders at exactly halfway up in the cylinder. If you did the belt at TDC then it's WAY off.

GD

#8 SubieTrav

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:11 PM

You don't use TDC for timing belt alignment. You use the mark on the crank sprocket - which puts all four cylinders at exactly halfway up in the cylinder. If you did the belt at TDC then it's WAY off.

GD


The crank mark is pointed at 0, so which mark should the arrow be pointed at. I guess I'm missing something here.

#9 ivans imports

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:11 PM

carefull turning cams as valves can touch each other ex to intake

#10 Fairtax4me

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:22 PM

You can't time these at TDC.
Timing mark on the crank sets all pistons at half stroke. Look on the back edge of the sprocket at the reluctors for the crank sensor. 90 degrees counter clockwise from the TDC arrow. Line up the dot on the reluctor tooth with the notch on the top of the oil pump housing. Line up the notches on the cam sprockets with the notches in the rear timing cover.

Posted Image

Edited by Fairtax4me, 03 February 2013 - 01:27 PM.


#11 SubieTrav

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:00 PM

I don't recall seeing that mark. I'll go clean it off, and find it. I have been using the arrow on the front of the crank sprocket.

#12 The Dude

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

If you used the arrows instead of the hash marks to line up for engine for the timing belt replacement, you almost certainly have bent valves. Although I would do a compression check anyway.

Chances are that you will be doing the head gasket again. Make certain that you use GENUINE SUBARU BRAND HEAD GASKETS ONLY. Many other posters have used aftermarket head gaskets and have lived to regret it. Save yourself from a giant headache.

#13 Fairtax4me

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:05 PM

Time it correctly and see what it does first. Odds are against you here but no point taking it apart unless you need to.

#14 SubieTrav

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:04 PM

I aligned the crank with the correct mark and it started, I didn't run I long as tranny fluid blew all over. I put a bolt in the hose thinking it would hold but when I started it again it just blew out. Ran find for the few seconds I did have it running. Tomorrow I'll do a compression test after I hook up the rest of the stuff.
Thanks guys.

#15 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:58 PM

we may need a 'sticky' titled; "NOT THE ARROWS, NEVER THE ARROWS - how to time the crank and cam pulleys"

this comes up a lot.

#16 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:00 AM

With 25D's it's mostly the valve-to-valve interference that bends them when the belt breaks or the engine goes out of time. Since he had the sprockets lined up and only the crank sprocket was off it is likely to be just fine.

GD

#17 ivans imports

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:54 AM

do not plug tranny cooler lines will damage the anti drainback valve join them together with a tube to allow them to flow. Hope your valves survived have had to redo many belts that shops got wrong dont think that will have damaged anything. The mark on crank for belt timing indacates that all 4 pistons are at same height in block not tdc

#18 SubieTrav

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:07 PM

I put everything back together and started it up. It runs great. I haven't done the compression test yet, spent about an hour trying to get one spark plug out and get the hose for the compression gauge in there so I gave up. My back was killing me. I'm very confident there are no bent valves. If it did have bent valves, wouldn't he motor be running ruff.

#19 Fairtax4me

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:12 PM

If it runs good then It's all good.
Glad to hear it's running well.

#20 ivans imports

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:56 AM

good ! no misfires ?

#21 SubieTrav

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:05 PM

No misfires. Engine runs as smooth as before I did the work on it. I'm going to drive it around for a couple of days before taking it in for smog test. Would it be a good idea to as some Subaru Coolant Conditioner?




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