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'95 impreza EJ22 into '98 OBW, wiring issues


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31 replies to this topic

#1 mikeanderso

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 04:55 PM

Hello Everyone,

New guy to the forum. I own a '98 Legacy OBW with 110,000 miles. Head gaskets went. Rather than replace the head gaskets and risk having them go out again later, I decided to swap out the EJ25 for an EJ22. I plan on keeping this car for awhile, and I don't have much need to go fast. I want rock solid reliability. After reading reviews on USMB, I bought a reman EJ22 from CCR (great people by the way). The engine is from a '95 impreza (that's what the notes in sharpie marker on the intake manifold sez). The engine is in place, and fits nicely, my observation is this:

On the '98 legacy, the engine harness clips into the firewall harness with 3 connectors: one 16 pin, one 12 pin and one 6 pin. The '95 legacy has the same connectors (I have wiring diagrams for both the '95 and '98 legacy, and my neighbor has a '95 he let me poke around on). The engine I am putting in has 2 16 pin connectors to connect the engine harness to the car.

I called CCR, and rick and emily are out for the week. I'm a patient guy, i just wanted to try and find out if there's anything I can do to make things work before they get back.

My question(s) to y'all are the following:

1. Is the 2 16 pin connector an impreza thing? I don't have an impreza wiring diagram so I can't check it.
2. The ideal solution would probably be to get a '95 legacy engine harness to put on the motor, but can I swap the engine wiring harness from the '98 2.5 motor over to the '95 2.2 motor somewhat easily?
3. anybody done the 2.5 DOHC to 2.2 swap that might have other words of advice/warning for me?

Thanks!

Mike A.

#2 mudrat79

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 03:15 AM

A quick fix maybe...?

I am not sure , but will your 2.5 intake mount onto the 2.2 motor....?

if it will, problem solved.......:)

I swapped a 97 2.2 into a 90 2.2 car, and wiring was different, I fixed it by just swapping the 90 intake onto the 97 motor but as I say it was a 2.2 to 2.2 swap...

I don't have a 2.5 in my face to look at intake similarities or differences, so this is just a pure stab in the dark......

Hope you get it , John in Oregon....

#3 BoxersOnly

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 07:37 AM

Not sure if this will help but....
I am putting a '98 EJ25 in a Beetle, so my wiring is even more complex.
What I have found out is that the wiring is different even between EJ25's of different years.

I'm affraid that you will have to trace every wire to make sure they will hook up to the right one.

What are you using for ECU ? I'm pretty sure the 2.5 ECU won't work with the 2.2 engine ?

Rob.

#4 mikeanderso

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 09:59 AM

The 2.5 manifold will not fit on the 2.2 engine. The mounting holes are in slightly different places.

I'm using the 2.2 ECU on the 2.2 engine to avoid that issue.

What i'm hoping is that someone that owns a 95 or so impreza will chime in and confirm my suspicion that the 2 16 pin connector is an impreza thing. I know it's not a legacy thing.

Then, if that's the case, I'm hoping someone will chime in and hook me up with a copy of the '95 impreza wiring diagram ;-)

Looking at the 95 legacy wiring diagram, and the '98 legacy wiring diagram, I don't see any reason why a '95 2.2 legacy engine would not work in a '98 legacy. What I have (I think) isa '95 impreza engine. I didn't think there was a difference, but I'm still learning...

Thanks for the suggestions everybody, keep 'em coming!

Mike A.

'98 OBW
'64 Volkswagen Transporter (air-cooled, not suby powered)

#5 cookie

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 12:48 PM

legacy with a 2.2 to see if the engine compartment connectors would fit.
Otherwise I would trace down wire by wire.
On a lot of cars the color codes stay the same for years. I have not played with a lot of subies so I don't know, but on my BMW I found that color codes were similar for years.

#6 mikeanderso

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 01:36 PM

Hi Cookie,


I've noticed on VW's, similar to BMW, that wiring color for a specific function stays the same for years and years. I harvested an entire wiring harness from a '74 bus and used the wiring to salvage my '64 harness which was spliced and hacked up. Whoa, a bit off topic...

Finding out how far back the engine connectors on a legacy are the same wouldn't help me. I know that the connectors are the same for '95 and '98 legacies which are the two years I care about at this point. What I don't know is how a '95 Impreza wiring harness differs from a '95 Legacy harness, and from a '98 for that matter. I have wiring diagrams for the '98 legacy, and the '95 legacy, but I know nothing about '95 impreza's

Thanks, and keep the ideas coming!

Mike A.
'98 OBW
'64 VW Transporter

#7 cookie

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 02:13 PM

longer. I don't know about the states as I am more familiar with legacies in New Zealand.
This is why I feel fairly sure there might be a bolt on soloution to your problem. Now whether that is available in the states or even in your local junkyard I don't know.

#8 avk

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 05:01 PM

Mike: are you sure the '95 Impreza engine is 2.2 and not 1.8? The '95 diagram shows that 1.8 harness has two 16-pin connectors and 2.2 has three (16, 12, and 6 pins). I can send you the diagram.

#9 SUBARU3

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 07:04 PM

I got your email. I have both a 2.2 95 Impreza and a 1.8 95 Impreza. I will look at the connectors tommorrow. I'm currently at work.

Todd

#10 mikeanderso

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 11:59 PM

Hey AVK,

The engine case is stamped EJ22. So what you're telling me is that I have a 2.2 engine with a 1.8 harness, maybe?

Hmm.....

Thanks everyone, keep it comin!

Mike A.

#11 avk

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 06:44 AM

I thought maybe the 2.2 core they used arrived w/o a harness, and they put one from a 1.8. But it shouldn't be a direct swap: 1.8 has a different idle control and an extra sensor for exhaust pressure. ECUs are different as well. Or maybe it's a pre-OBDII 2.2, like a '94, but then it wouldn't be from an Impreza. Do you have the engine code?

#12 mikeanderso

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 10:54 AM

I will get the code this evening, I'm at work now.

Hmm. would I be able to swap the harness from my 2.5 core motor over to the 2.2 and make it work? I guess I'll have to look into what differences there are between the 95 and 98 wiring harnesses.

Ultimately, when Rick and Emily get back at CCR, I'd like to either get a '95 legacy harness to put on the motor, or move mine over from the 2.5. Before I start doing any of that, though, I'd like to find out a little bit more about this motor.

Thanks!

Mike A.

#13 SUBARU3

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 03:50 PM

Here's what I have:

Both Imprezas
1995 2.2 AWD automatic OBD2, Yes OBD2, late 1995 = (1) 16 pin, (1) 12 pin and (1) 6 pin

1995 1.8 2WD manual OBD1 = (2) 16 pin only.


Todd

#14 mikeanderso

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 03:52 PM

Okay, so it looks like I've got a 2.2 engine with a 1.8 harness. I will get the engine # tonight to make sure.

Thanks everybody, I will let y'all know what I decide to do next...

Mike A.

#15 mikeanderso

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 03:58 PM

Just thought if this, maybe what I have is an early '95 impreza motor with OBD1. The root question now becomes: Does 2 16 pin connectors mean OBD1, or does it mean 1.8?

In order to prove that, I'd need to know if say a '96 or '97 impreza (OBD2) with a 1.8 motor has the 2 16 pin connectors, or the 16, 12, 6 combo.

Anybody out there with a post '95 impreza with a 2.2, or a 1.8 that could chime in would be great.

Still learning...

Mike A.

#16 Boosted5speed

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 07:39 PM

From reading the replies it sounds like you probably have an OBD1 2.2 wiring harness, not necessarily a 1.8 obd1 wiring harness.

#17 mikeanderso

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 09:05 PM

went to the subaru dealer tonight to pick up some parts for the swap, and talked to the service guys. They pulled out a 95 impreza service manual, and the 2.2 wiring diagram has the 16, 12, and 6 pin conectors. The 1.8 has the two 16's. They did not have paper copies of the '94 or earlier, and the guy didn't want to go find them. So, my question is this: For a known OBD1 2.2 motor (pre-95), does it use the two 16 pin connectors? or is the two 16 pin connectors strictly a 1.8 thing?

On a separate note, tonight I'm going to go over and compare the 95 2.2 legacy wiring diagram with the 98 2.5 wiring diagram to see if I can use the harness off of my core motor.

If anyone out there has a pre '95 impreza 2.2 motor, and could see how many connectors there are between the engine and firewall harness it would satisfy my curiosity!

Right now my hypothesis is that the type of connectors used depends on engine size, regardless of OBD. Come on, prove me wrong!

Mike A.

#18 avk

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 10:21 PM

The idea of an OBDII harness having 3 plugs and OBDI having 2 was a speculation on my part, since I only have wiring schematics for a '95. But there has to be a difference. Officially, all 2.2 Imprezas are '95 or later and all are OBDII. Maybe seeing a diagram for '94 Legacy will help.

#19 mikeanderso

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 12:26 AM

okay,

the number off the flat machined spot just left (FIF) of where the transmission bell and the engine meet is 038742. The numbers at the top of the engine case where the tranny bell and engine meet are 89986 and 87787.

I went through the engine wiring diagrams tonight for the '95 Legacy EJ22 and the '98 Legacy EJ25. The connections through the 16, 12, and 6 pin connectors to the engine are exactly the same. the wires connect differently into the ECM, but an engine harness from a 98 legacy is the same as that from a 95 legacy.

Now I'm thinking I should be able to move the engine harness from my core motor over to the EJ22 motor, and send the 1.8 impreza harness back with my core motor to CCR.

That's assuming that the '95 motor I have is compatible with a '95 legacy. Are there any electrical differences between legacy and impreza 2.2 motors that might be a problem?

Lots to learn..

Mike A.

#20 avk

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 12:17 PM

Mike: Thanks for posting the numbers. But if these contain information about the engine type, I must say I don't know how to read them. What I had in mind was the type of code found on the emissions label on the hood. I know they don't give you a label with the engine, but maybe the rebuilder has a way to know the code. As to electrical differences between 2.2s on '95 Legacy and Impreza, I don't know of any, as long as transmissions are the same, either manual or auto (and all '95 2.2 Imprezas are supposedly auto, although people reported some with MT, all of them 2dr afaik).

#21 lmdew

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 06:05 PM

I'd change the harness over. I had to do a like swap on the harness going from a 90 to a 93 Legacy 2.2 motors. Tie string to the end of the terminal when you pull the wires back under the intake. It makes re-stringing the wires a lot easier.

Let us know how it works out.

#22 mikeanderso

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 02:11 PM

hello everyone,

here's a recap of this weekend's events.

Pulled the harness off the 2.5 friday night.
Pulled the 1.8 harness of of the new motor saturday morning, and started connecting up the harness out of the 2.5.
All the wiring lines up right, but some of the connectors (idle control solenoid, throttle position sensor, and coil) have connectors that are slightly different. Rather than start cutting and splicing, I decided to wait until monday to talk to CCR. Sigh. That's two weekends gone.

Talked to Emily at CCR today. Their bad on hooking the wrong harness on the motor. Her theory is that the motor (a 2.2) came from an impreza that had been a 1.8 from the factory. At some point in time, a previous owner pulled the 1.8 motor and put in the 2.2. the 1.8 harness was put on the 2.2 motor so that it would work with the car. The motor was pulled and ended up at CCR to be rebuilt. After it was completed, the wiring harness that it had come in with got put back onto it.

CCR is going to find me a '95 legacy 2.2 harness to put onto the motor, and hopefully ship out to me ASAP.

lessons learned: 1.8 wiring harness is different from 2.2 harness. Make sure you mention that when ordering an engine.

I'm a bit frustrated with the whole process, this has been much more compicated that it should have been, and I'm still waiting for the right parts to get here so I can drive the car. If I start thinking about how easy this could have been in the first place with the right wiring, it just gets me frustrated, so I try not to think about it :-)

CCR has so far been very helpful with straightening it out, but I'll reserve final judgent until that 2.2 harness arrives on my front door ;-)

Mike A.

#23 avk

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 05:36 PM

If the 2.2 engine was put into a 1.8 car, the intake manifold could have been swapped to make the harness work. Hopefully it's not the case, but if it is, the 2.2 harness may not fit.

#24 mikeanderso

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 10:06 PM

How would I be able to tell which manifold it has on it? What is the difference between the 1.8 and 2.2 manifolds?

Mike A.

#25 avk

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 07:00 AM

The biggest difference seems to be that on a 1.8l, there are extra "collector" pieces sandwiched between the intake and the head on each side. Also a 1.8 engine should have an EGR valve, whether w. MT or AT, and it's attached to the intake rather than to the head like on 2.2. Hope it's not what you have.




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