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Problems with tranny swap! Help (4sp D/R to 5sp D/R)


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37 replies to this topic

#1 greggbrat

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 05:30 PM

I am putting an EA82 5sp D/R into my 1982 Brat......basically swapping out my 4sp D/R for a 5sp D/R.

I am in the middle of the tranny swap right now. Numerous posts and people stated to use the EA82 5sp D/R, EA82 Clutch disk, EA82 Throwout bearing, and the EA81 pressure plate....here is the dillema;

The EA82 clutch disk will not fit into the EA81 Pressure plate.

And I cant use the EA81 clutch disk because the spindle coming out of the EA81 tranny is smaller than the one coming out of the EA82 tranny.

My only guess is that I need the EA82 pressure plate.....not the EA81 pressure plate. Would I also need the EA82 flywheel?

Any help would be appreciated.......my brat is currently sitting in pieces in my driveway.

THanks,
Gregg

#2 ShawnW

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 05:47 PM

I had that same problem. It sounds like you have an aftermarket Pressure plate. You need a dealer one to go with the ea82 clutch disc.

Ea81 factory clutch cover is 430157410. That will guarantee that the spring plate on the clutch disc fits inside for the clutch to rest.

Keys to remember:
Clutch fork makes the throwout bearing a no brainer. ea82 only
Trans splines make the disc a no brainer, ea82 only.
Flywheel and pressure plate must match each other.
8 and 7.8" clutch components must be used.

You could also get a ea82 flywheel and use the ea81 flywheel bolts. Not what I did or felt comfortable doing but the rest of the board disagrees with me on this. I think it would be fine but I went for TRIED AND TRUE instead and used an ea81 flywheel.

#3 greggbrat

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 05:51 PM

That doesnt work either.......the EA82 clutch disk will not fit into the EA81 flywheel or the pressure plate.

It would appear that if I use all EA82 parts to include an EA82 flywheel this conversion would work just fine.

Perhaps there is something special about the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate on the 1982 Brat. Either that or everyone saying to mix and match parts is just having fun at my expense.

I just measured my EA82 Clutch disk.....its 9" in diameter. Pretty beefy clutch.....I imagine it is aftermarket.....I took it from the JY along with the tranny. The clutch disk is almost new.......but now I will need the pressure plate and flywheel to get this to work.

#4 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 06:07 PM

The reason your EA81 flywheel and PP won't work with the EA82 disc, is because you have an 82 Brat. 82 was the only year with the 200mm clutch. If you aquire an 83+ flywheel and PP, the EA82 disc WILL work just fine as Shawn sugested. The EA81 (83+) and the EA82 4WD clutch is 225mm, or 8-7/8".

GD

#5 greggbrat

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 08:43 PM

For every rule there is an exception.........

Of course the 82 brat is different. Now I get to go the JY again and pull another tranny. Any advice on the best way to pull a get an engine and tranny far enough apart to get the flywheel out? Or do I have to yank the entire tranny out?

And while I am at it.......Does the 1983 and later flywheel match the bolt holes of my 82 brat?

Thanks,
Gregg

#6 bratsrus1

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 09:51 PM

Hey Greg This is Jerry, you need the flywheel from a later year EA81. It is the same size as the EA82 clutch disc same with the pressure plate EA81. If you use the ea82 pressure plate on the ea81 flywheel it won't work. The ea81 flywheel is 90 thousands deeper than the ea82 it will slip. The 86 brat flywheel works really good. Thanks Jerry

#7 greggbrat

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 10:00 PM

Hey Jerry,

Thanks for the clarification.

Isnt it also possible to just use all EA82 parts? (ie, flywheel, pressure plate, clutch disk, throwout bearing)

Why would I want to mix/match EA81 and EA82 parts? Is there an advantage?

On a final note I heard you sell a kit for the linkage when doing this swap. What is in it and how much does it cost?

Thanks,
Gregg

#8 bratsrus1

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 11:11 PM

Hi Greg This is Jerry, yes you can use all EA82 parts BUT if you are driving it on the street then that's a big no. The EA82 flywheel has bigger holes for the flywheelbolts. You can get a vibration, if you are off roading it you will never notice it. The 5 speed kit that i sell cost 100.00 pluse shipping and it lets you unbolt the 4 speed and bolt the 5speed up without any welding or cutting and it looks stock. If you want 1 of those kits let me know and i will let you know what to ship me. I have a 5 speed in my 86 hatch and i love it, i will never go back to a 4 speed. My hatch has a 86 rx turbo 5 speed dual range tranny in it with 3.70 gears a highway cruiser top speed i don't know to fast. Thanks Jerry

#9 edrach

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 11:19 PM

Jerry, do you remember my Brat? If I'm not mistaken we used the EA82 flywheel. Is that because I have extra vibration going down the highway? We can eliminate that soon since I've got to pull the engine to replace the head gaskets. Timely piece of information.

#10 greggbrat

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 12:14 AM

Jerry,

You are a wealth of information. OK, tomorrow I go to the junkyard to find an EA81 flywheel and pressure plate from a 1983 or greater vehicle.

#11 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 02:43 AM

EA82 flywheel an PP WILL NOT VIBRATE. There is no evidence to sugest this other than speculation. And many have used the EA82 flywheel on the EA81 crank with no problems at all. The flywheel is centered on the raised ring in the center of the crank, not by the bolt holes. The bolt holes are bigger, but it's not an issue for street, or off-road use. I know that Qman is even using an XT6 flywheel and PP on his EA81, and has had no problems with this setup. The XT6 is the heaviest duty flywheel and PP that came stock on any EA series engine. And if you feel uncomfortable with the holes being bigger, then go get some bushings to fill in the gap. The benifits are several - for one, the release bearing is a different size, and will contact the PP fingers differently - resulting it a different "feel" to the clutch. Also - the XT6 PP is quite a bit stronger, and will lock up better for street use.

Ed - your vibration is probably suspension related. My bone stock Brat vibrate's a bit on the freeway too - it's 20 year old bushings and ball joints that are doing it, not the flywheel. If the flywheel were in fact vibrating, you would have destroyed your crank bearings in only a few thousand miles. Plus you would get the same vibration even when not moving at all if it were the flywheel - just from reving the engine to 3k, and letting it sit there......

GD

#12 greggbrat

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 03:23 PM

I go to the junkyard and find a 1984 EA81 GL Wagon with a 4sp D/R. Then I spend about 2 hours yanking the tranny far enough back to get the pressure plate and flywheel out.

Then I measure the clutch/flywheel/pressure plate only to find out its the same damn 200mm clutch I currently have. I need the 8 7/8" clutch parts.

This sucks!!!!!!

#13 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 04:32 PM

Next time, don't pull the tranny, pull the engine forward. Remove the radiator, and just rock the engine forward enough to slide the clutch and flywheel out. Last time I got one from the JY, it took me 30 minutes tops. Actually - that time I was also getting a flywheel for an 82 Brat to upgrade the clutch!

In that 84, either the engine was replaced, and it came from a 2WD, or they used a 2WD clutch because they are cheaper.....

GD

#14 greggbrat

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 05:50 PM

screw it......I picked up an EA82 flywheel. No more fuss.

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 06:55 PM

Right on - that's what I'm going to do as well. And I have a friend with a lathe that will turn some metal off it for me.....

GD

#16 greggbrat

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 07:57 PM

Next issue. I am moving the tranny mounts from my old EA81 4sp D/R to the EA82 5sp D/R.

The tranny mounts dont fit. The portion that bolts onto the tranny....the holes do not line up. I can get one bolt in. How have other people done it......are they drilling out the mount to try and get two bolts holding it to the tranny? Or just using one bolt?

Hey GeneralDisorder......I thought you had already done this swap? I would think that if you are using all EA82 parts then there is no need to put anything on a lathe. The only possible issue is that bolt holes are larger on the EA82 flywheel.

For the overall project I am using an EA82 5sp D/R tranny, EA82 flywheel, EA82 pressure plate, EA82 throwout bearing, EA82 Clutch........which means I am using all EA82 parts.

#17 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:07 PM

For my Brat I'm going to lighten the EA82 flywheel for better performance.... thus the lathe job. A lighter flyhweel rev's quicker - good for a street rig. Off-road you want heavier for torque.

Generally people use the EA82 tranny mounts.

GD

#18 greggbrat

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:13 PM

The EA82 tranny mounts wont fit onto the EA81 crossmember.

And the EA82 crossmember does not fit on the underside of an EA81 vehicle.

Anyone else have any ideas? Or better yet.....first hand experience? Help!

#19 ShawnW

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:19 PM

That is half of what Jerry's kit solves.

The other half is the shifters.

#20 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:20 PM

The EA82 cross-member should work with modifications....

Or just drill out the EA81 mounts, and use the EA81 cross-member.

GD

#21 greggbrat

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:26 PM

The EA82 crossmember would need to be totally resized, ground down and redrilled. The two crossmembers are entirely different in length......plus the EA82 crossmember uses only two points where it mounts on the frame while the EA81 uses 4 bolts to mount it to the frame.

#22 greggbrat

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:29 PM

It looks like I will be drilling out the old mounts. I just want to make sure that I wont have any fit problems when I am done.

As for the shifters I am hoping they just line up and I can use the EA82 interior console.

#23 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:30 PM

It appears you have answered your own question then - apparently YOU need to use the EA81 style on your car. What you have to realize is that not all the EA81's out there are the same. They changed things over the years, and depending on what year/tranny/model you have, things are different. There have been a couple cases where Jerry's kit didn't work perfectly because of these differences. There is no hard and fast rule on this stuff - Subaru's are like Legos - you just need to find the parts that fit, and make it work. Even 5 speed trannies are not all the same.....

As for the shifters, they never line up. You have choices - either get Jerry's kit, or use the EA82 shifters with the EA81 console's....

GD

#24 greggbrat

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:41 PM

As long as the shifters fit into the shifter hole then I can make it all work. If nothing else I can use my fiberglass skills to fabricate a different console. Hey, now that I am thinking about it a drink holder would be a nice addition. :-)

I was seeing red after wasting my time at the junkyard earlier today. A little dinner and I will be all better. The good news is that I am now an expert at tranny removal.

#25 greggbrat

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 09:04 PM

Hey Jerry,

I appreciate that you have your kit available.......I just dont have the money. From what everyone is saying its quite the hassle solver you have developed.

Gregg




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