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Motor knock


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23 replies to this topic

#1 espey_16

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:37 PM

Hey guys. I just bought an 86 gl wagon a couple weeks ago. The car ran like a top until monday when I got dropped off after work. I started it up and it had a horrible knock to it so I shut it off and went to check the oil, it was a little low but not much. So I had to have it towed home that night from Tacoma. That morning the car ran fine. What would cause such a sudden motor knock?

#2 grossgary

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:31 AM

make sure oil pan or filter aren't dented, but that's highly unlikely. 

checking oil pressure would be nice (the gauge, if equipped, isn't typically accurate).

 

is it TOD or definitely knocking?

 

TOD is common, benign, but alarming if you've never heard it before.

if it is TOD replacing the oil pump has the highest percentage (i'm still at 100% success rate) in my experience.  although the 85/86 era engines have a weaker oring in the cam tower that is suspected to be problematic.  we have recently started a comprehensive thread about TOD.  sometimes simply resealing the pump will cure it. look for that thread.

 

if it is actual knocking, since you've only owned the car a few weeks it's hard to say what would cause it, but probably nothing you did.  more than likely it was compromised when you bought it, previously overheated, run low on oil.  you're telling us it's already low...after how many miles?  previous owner could have easily run it too low....all speculation of course.


Edited by grossgary, 15 March 2013 - 12:33 AM.


#3 l75eya

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:42 AM

As mentioned, it's very important to try and discern whether it's a knocking as you describe, or the typical 'ticking' that the EA82 engines occasionally develop.

The ticking is relatively easy to fix (usually) and is also not really much of a harmful thing. It's just noisy and unnerving if you've never heard it before (as mentioned above)

A knocking, that's a different story. Try to explain it better. Your best bet would be to take a video of it or even just an audio recording, and post up a link to it for us to check out for you if you're not sure yourself.



#4 espey_16

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:59 PM

Hey thanks guys. Its definitely not a tick, its a bad knock. My buddys suby was a ticker untill we put lucas oil stabilizer in it. Can you post a link to the TOD thread? I tried searching for TOD, but you need at least 4 letters.

#5 88wacaroo

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:02 PM

Try putting all the words in- The Tick Of Death or Rod Knock or Tick Of Death...It"s here we were just talking about it a couple of weeks ago you might have to go back in 2-3 weeks ago-I"ll look for it in a few I always end up in the old stuff by accident Good Luck



#6 88wacaroo

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:12 PM

Hey guys. I just bought an 86 gl wagon a couple weeks ago. The car ran like a top until monday when I got dropped off after work. I started it up and it had a horrible knock to it so I shut it off and went to check the oil, it was a little low but not much. So I had to have it towed home that night from Tacoma. That morning the car ran fine. What would cause such a sudden motor knock?

This should help you find the TOD thread...On the page you posted on go to the bottom of the page on the left bottom it"ll say next page-click on that it"ll keep on going into the older threads so you"ll have to look at them till you see it T.O.D.



#7 espey_16

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:39 PM

Oh ok, didnt know what tod stood for. Thank you.

#8 espey_16

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:01 AM

The night it happened I had the car towed to my local mechanic, he listened to the motor and said it sounds like something in the head came loose or mabey a snapped cam. It definitely sounds like its coming from the driver side head. I read a post that General Disorder wrote saying he had lifters that wouldn't pump up. Does this sound like the problem to you guys? I also read a post about TOD, and about replacing oil pump seals. When this happens, does oil leak from the pump onto the ground or what? I have a small oil leak at the driver vc, and at the rear main seal or oil pan, but not the oil pump.

#9 88wacaroo

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:23 AM

So is it more of a CLACKING noise-sorta sporadic-clack clack clack and does it still run on all 4 cyl. fairly smooth? Or is it a knock like if you go to the BK. glass and knock on it with your hand like your knocking on a door....



#10 djellum

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:56 AM

take a wooden stick or a long screwdriver and touch it to the oil pan, heads, valve covers, etc and put your ear to the other end.  it will help you tell where exactly the noise is coming from.  dont forget to check the water pump, alternator and other such that is on that side just to be sure.

 

what did you do when you bought it?  change the oil right away or anything.  ive seen people use thicker oil to mask knocks while they sell a car, then once the person changes it the knock comes back (not trying to scare you, but anything you have done, even basic stuff is good to know). 



#11 grossgary

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

well the good news is that if it sounds like it's in the head then it's probably not knocking and your block is fine.  EA82's generally don't have block issues ever unless they've been run low on coolant or oil. 

 

pull the valve cover, it's easy, just a couple 10mm bolts (though for the drivers side it's nice to have a 10mm ratcheting wrench - i consider that a necessity for the lower rear bolt)- if a rocker arm fell off or HLA is seized, you'll be able to tell with the valve cover off.

 

any signs of previous engine work on this car?  new intake manifold or headgaskets - both are easily seen just by looking.

 

did it still drive fine with the knocking or did you just shut it down immediately.



#12 espey_16

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:25 AM

The day after I bought the car I changed the oil and put in a can of this http://m.oreillyauto...0443&ppt=C1941, changed the air filter, and ran a bottle of seafoam through the fuel system. When it happened I shut the car off and called a friend to tow me home. It drove fine getting on the trailer, but thats all I drove it. Sorry about the noob question, but whats an HLA?

#13 scoobiedubie

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

What oil weight are you using? How many miles since the last cylinder head replacement? If the oil is too light, the oil can leak out of old hydraulic lifters. Hydraulic lifters can go bad all by themselves. Also, if the previous owner had removed the camtower recently, he may have installed a standard rubber O-ring between the camtower and the cylinder head. Standard O-rings will melt and you will lose oil circulation to the hydraulic lifters and to the camshaft nobs. There are 3 oil channels between the cylinder head and the camtower. All 3 must have an additional seal to make your engine run it's quietest.

#14 djellum

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:31 PM

when you put cleaners and addatives in the oil and gas (cant follow the link to what you added) it breaks up clogs and can cause them in other places as things move around.  also people can put addatives in to mask noises and then they come back once you change out the fluids.  the best thing to do is isolate the noise, use a mechanics stethoscope or just a dowel or screwdriver.  

 

new car it could be about anything, even something simple like a alternator or something can sound really bad if you dont follow the sound to its source.

 

also recheck your oil, if its still dark you may want to seafoam the oil and rechange it again (double checking the weight).  I changed the oil 3 times in the first month I had mine before it started staying clean.  disclaimer, I only use sea foam, it has worked the best and hasn't caused me problems like other addatives have.  it might make it better or worse depending on the problem, you should find the source of the noice first imo.  I developed a tick the first time I foamed it, which went away after the third time I changed the oil, but it was a very minor noise on mine.



#15 espey_16

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:28 AM

Hey guys. I got the car towed home this weekend and started to look at it. I pulled both valve covers off and everything looked good in there. Do you guys think I should change the oil again and mabey use the lucas oil treatment? Ive had good luck with it taking away ticks and such. Ill get a bottle of seafoam and run it in my oil too this week and see what that does.

Edited by espey_16, 26 March 2013 - 07:38 AM.


#16 ivans imports

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:09 AM

check the coged idler and the timing belt tentioners can make it knock if berrings are going out



#17 espey_16

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

Thank you. I did some digging today and tried the wooden dowel trick. Definatly coming from the driver side, so I took the timing cover off and found the culprit. Its an idler gear or something. I didnt even notice till the cover was off, but that idler or whatever it is is wearing a hole in my timing cover.

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Edited by espey_16, 31 March 2013 - 04:59 PM.


#18 zukiru

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:36 PM

That's how i wound up with my sedan. That bearing froze up and ate the timing belt.

#19 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:58 AM

I ditched my timing belt covers, kept destroying them after removing/installing them over and over.. But it looks like in this case it might be keeping that pulley from falling out lol. I can't really tell with that cover on, but it looks like the bolt just came loose. And i'm sure that would make quite an awful noise.

 

Edit: Or maybe zukiru is right and its just going bad and the heat is melting the cover.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 01 April 2013 - 03:00 AM.


#20 espey_16

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:54 AM

The cover is definatly holding that pulley in. Im not sure if the bolt came loose, but I can move it by hand. I found a timing set on ebay for $100. It has the belts, pulley, tensioners, cam/crank seals, valve cover gaskets, and oil pump gaskets. Hopefully I can get the job done this coming weekend.

#21 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:53 PM

The cover is definatly holding that pulley in. Im not sure if the bolt came loose, but I can move it by hand. I found a timing set on ebay for $100. It has the belts, pulley, tensioners, cam/crank seals, valve cover gaskets, and oil pump gaskets. Hopefully I can get the job done this coming weekend.

 

Wow that's crazy then, good thing these are non-interference motors lol. You would have thrown that belt eventually, for sure.

 

When you attempt to pull the crank pulley and it doesn't want to budge.. Use a long breaker bar against the sub frame (near the battery) and bump the starter. Make sure the socket fits tightly so you don't strip it, I use a cut up tee shirt between the bolt and socket to insure a tight fit.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 01 April 2013 - 04:54 PM.


#22 grossgary

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:13 PM

those ebay kits are the way to go.  timing belt jobs are really easy on these things, only takes a few minutes. 

 

add on a good bit of time if you start digging into oil and water pumps, seals, etc.



#23 espey_16

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:22 PM

Yeah, I have 3 day weekends so I should have enough time to do the belts and both pumps. Ive never torn into a Subaru engine before so this should be fun.

#24 espey_16

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:46 AM

Friday I replaced the timing belts and water pump. As soon as I got the timing cover off, metal pieces just started falling out. That idler pulley was hammered. Now the car runs like a dream. Thanks guys for the help.

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Edited by espey_16, 07 April 2013 - 10:51 AM.





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