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Random Coolant Leak?


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#51 jj421

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:50 PM

Hmm, that does make sense. It almost seems like it'd be easier to just drop in another engine in, versus rebuilding it. This would definitely be the opportunity to drop in an EJ22 in there, since I'm gonna have to pull the engine anyways. Too bad I don't feel like dealing with the ECU, wiring, adapter for the transmission, etc.

 

I really don't want to do this by myself. I want someone with experience to take a look at the car and help. It would take a lot longer for me to do this, and like I said, I have no clue what I'm doing. Never done any internal engine work before. Never pulled an engine before either.

 

If it's feasible, I would do an EJ22 swap. Again, would want someone with experience to help.

 

Want some more opinions on what the problem is, and what I should do. Should I rebuild, or replace the engine? If replacing, put another EA82 in there, or do an EJ22 swap? Obviously the EJ is the way to go, but putting another EA82 in there is a lot easier with little-to-no modification. But the EJ is more reliable, and has noticeably more power. Ugh, haha.  :rolleyes:

 

Man, this evolved from a little 8"-long hose replacement to a potential engine swap. Wow. That escalated quickly.  :horse:


Edited by jj421, 25 March 2013 - 07:52 PM.


#52 JuhaKankkunen

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

Mmmm i don't think swap an easy work, but I do not have experience with that.

Rebuilding doesn't seems to be a difficult work in USA since you can find all you need there.

Swapping another engine is to put a used one so at least you know the previous owner......you won't know what it is inside the new one.

Let's wait for others opinions!

#53 sikend667

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:06 PM

that much water that quick id bet its a cracked head. less likely to be an intake crack because it would have to leak past the valves and i doubt that much would get thru that quick. a EJ swap is going to take longer than a weekend and rebuilding the original is going to take more than a weekend. machining and replacing what ever is FUBAR in there might thake a week. a used EA motor IMHO is always a crapshoot as to wheather or not you will get a good one. time to get those heads off... and i mean NOW gotta get that coolant out of there before it causes any other damage. plugs look like they were pretty bad as well. drain all the coolant you can out of the cooling system and then pull the heads off its the only way to find out whats going on. it only takes about an hour to get them off so get to cracking.



#54 AKghandi

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:36 PM

I'm very sorry to hear about that, but I do know a way to fix it at least temporarily .

I have had very very good luck with this stuff, http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/B000M8NZ70

 

They have it at O'reillys

 

Granted its not a fix, but it will keep you going down the road for a while.

 

We put it in a car that was steaming so bad you couldn't see it if you were behind it, and not even 3 minutes later, the steam just stopped. and stayed that way. to my knowledge its still going strong.(this was 3 years ago..)

 

this isn't your normal stop leak, it doesn't clog heater cores or radiators.

it is however quite a process, drain the coolant, rinse with water, refill with water, add stop leak, idle for 30 mins, drain and refill with anifreeze. and so on.


Edited by AKghandi, 25 March 2013 - 09:39 PM.


#55 jj421

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:40 PM

Okay, so far, it seems like the head is probably cracked. Or maybe the head gasket, but either way, I'm taking the head(s) off.

 

Let me get this straight though, the cylinder heads are right behind the valve covers, right? So take off the valve cover, disconnect the exhaust, take off whatever else is attached to the head (I don't know myself), then the cylinder head bolts and take the head off. Pretty straight forward if that's what you have to do. Of course, gotta replace all the gaskets, but generally, that's it, right? Am I gonna have to drain the oil too, along with the coolant?

 

If so, could I do it with the engine in the car? I've done the valve cover gaskets on my old EA81, and although there's less room in the EA82 engine compartment, it still seems feasible. I can probably take off the head tomorrow if I don't have to pull the engine.

 

And I'd be rebuilding the cylinder(s)? Or could I get away with just replacing the head? I think it'd be easier to get a head from the junkyard than rebuilding mine, especially if they're not too difficult to get to. I could order a brand new one from O'Reilly, but I don't have $300 to spend right now.  :o Oh, and which head and head gasket am I replacing? The driver side, since that's where the coolant was? Or do both sides?

 

As much as I would try that product, I'm kinda against temporary fixes. I believe that they just make a mess inside the engine, and make it more difficult to deal with when you properly fix it. Of course, this depends on the product and brand, but it's still more of a "get me home safely without a tow" kind of fix. 



#56 AKghandi

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:24 PM

the good thing about that sealant, is it just fills the cracks, the rest gets rinsed out. if i had a head gasket problem that's the first thing i would try, just because i have used it before and i know what it does, i used on an old 2.2 dodge, and replaced the head gasket a week later, and the sealant was filling the just the leak. cleaned up pretty easily too.. dodge 2.2/2.5 are my favorite motors. especially the turbo ones.

 

 

as far as a proper fix goes, do a leak down test first, it may not be the head/ gasket. it may be an intake gasket leak.  the #4 cyl might just happend to be the one with the intake valve open. and also get the coolant out and start it back up. burn the coolant out. and see how bad it steams.(not the best but hey, we are teens with limited resousrces.)



#57 jj421

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:06 AM

Hmm, maybe, but I don't really need that product right now. I would like to get my car running, but if I'm going to be properly fixing it, I don't want to spend the extra money for it.

 

Too bad I can't do a leak down test. I don't have the proper tools, and I don't have compressed air. Don't have the money to get that stuff either.  :mellow:



#58 sikend667

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:08 AM

start by draining the coolant (whatever is actually left) and the oil. check the oil for water and the coolant for oil. then remove the intake check those gaskest for cracks or a potential leak. the main reason for me doubting it being the intake manifold is thats alot more coolant then just the manifold can hold. if it isnt that gasket then pull the heads off. remove the exaust and any othe lines etc you see attached to the head. you can do it in the car but its a bit of a PITA but in a pinch it can be done. check the head for cracks and the gasket for a waterjacket to compression blow. replace the head if cracked or have it resurfaced if it isnt cracked. make sure you get all the seals and gaskets you need and invest in a tourque wrench. put it all back together with factory tourque specs and you should be good to go.



#59 jj421

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:47 AM

Okay, so I guess I will go get stuff for an oil change, even though I changed the oil ~1500 miles ago. But nice to know ahead of time.

 

I'll probably do it all with the engine in the car. I have a habit of doing things the hard way, mainly because I don't have the proper tools. Wish it was the passenger side though, as there is more room there. The driver side has got a bunch of vacuum lines and whatnot.

 

What am I looking at for the intake manifold gaskets? This is what O'Reilly shows as those gaskets, so these are what I'm looking for?

 

ms22764_p04_top.jpg

 

I'm gonna go to the dealership for the gaskets, but just on O'Reilly's site for the pictures.

 

How easy will it be to see cracks in the intake manifold or the head? Will it be kinda hard to see, or a rather obvious crack? And then same deal with the gaskets: will it be obvious if the gasket failed in a certain spot? The only real gaskets I've dealt with were the valve cover gaskets on my old EA81, and those were dirty and hard to tell.

 

Is there a gasket sealer that you recommend for the intake manifold, heads, and valve covers (and whatever else that my need it)? Oh, and I do have a torque wrench. A click-stop type from Harbor Freight, that goes up to 150 ft-lbs. Don't you need a really accurate torque wrench for head bolts? Will this suffice?



#60 AKghandi

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:33 AM

like I have said before I wish I were closer, I'd help you get it figured and repaired. you would be surprised how many cars I work on for free.

 

for the head gaskets, undo the engine mount bolts and jack the motor up by the oil pan. this will give you enough clearance to get the heads off. much easier.



#61 JuhaKankkunen

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:19 PM

like I have said before I wish I were closer, I'd help you get it figured and repaired. you would be surprised how many cars I work on for free.
 
for the head gaskets, undo the engine mount bolts and jack the motor up by the oil pan. this will give you enough clearance to get the heads off. much easier.


Me too!

#62 sikend667

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:26 PM

Okay, so I guess I will go get stuff for an oil change, even though I changed the oil ~1500 miles ago. But nice to know ahead of time.

 

I'll probably do it all with the engine in the car. I have a habit of doing things the hard way, mainly because I don't have the proper tools. Wish it was the passenger side though, as there is more room there. The driver side has got a bunch of vacuum lines and whatnot.

 

What am I looking at for the intake manifold gaskets? This is what O'Reilly shows as those gaskets, so these are what I'm looking for?

 

ms22764_p04_top.jpg

 

I'm gonna go to the dealership for the gaskets, but just on O'Reilly's site for the pictures.

 

How easy will it be to see cracks in the intake manifold or the head? Will it be kinda hard to see, or a rather obvious crack? And then same deal with the gaskets: will it be obvious if the gasket failed in a certain spot? The only real gaskets I've dealt with were the valve cover gaskets on my old EA81, and those were dirty and hard to tell.

 

Is there a gasket sealer that you recommend for the intake manifold, heads, and valve covers (and whatever else that my need it)? Oh, and I do have a torque wrench. A click-stop type from Harbor Freight, that goes up to 150 ft-lbs. Don't you need a really accurate torque wrench for head bolts? Will this suffice?

most of the time they are hairline fractures easy to see on the head next to impossible to see on the intake. that much leakage and the gasket blow (if thats what it is) should be fairly obvious. head gaskets are a dry install as are the intake and exaust gaskets. the valve covers are too so shouldnt need any type of sealant. a click stop will work fine for the heads thats what i use. valve cover gaskets are always next to impossible to spot a leak on which is whay i always have 2-3 extra sets lol and yes those are the correct gaskets for a single port intake.



#63 jj421

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:58 PM

Yeah, I still want someone to come by and help me. Although the more information I get about this, the easier it seems to be to do.

 

I've never done anything with the engine mounts, so which ones are you talking about? I think the only ones I know about are aft of the cylinder heads, on either side of the transmission. Not sure though, as I've never looked in that area. Hopefully I'll be able to jack it up fine on this hill, but I don't own a floor jack. Borrowed one from a friend when I did my tranny swap, but I've only got the scissor jack.  <_<

 

All those gaskets are dry installation? I knew about the exhaust not needing sealant, but the valve cover, head, and intake manifold gaskets? So basically, it's like take everything apart/off, take off old gasket, position new gasket, bolt everything back on? There's no need to get a sealant and do what's in the picture below?

 

gasket-sealant-image-03.jpg

 

If I really don't need to use any sealant, that'll make this job much easier. There are two things I hate dealing with when working on cars: cotter pins and gaskets. Dry gaskets that easily come off are okay, but when I have to scrap the old gasket off and seal the new one on, it gets pretty annoying.

 

Hopefully I'll be able to see the problem and see the crack. I'll be posting pictures when I open her up, since usually you guys can see stuff I can't. I don't think my valve cover gasket is leaking, but I do have an oil leak and it seems to be around that general area. Maybe that'll get fixed during this process? Doubt it, haha.

 

Out of curiosity, what would cause a cylinder head to crack? What would cause a head gasket to fail? What would cause an intake manifold to crack, or the manifold gasket to fail? Are these failures usually instantaneous and random, like in my case? Or are they more of a slowly developing problem, over a long(ish) period of time? Are there any signs at the moment of failure, like noises, smells, sights?

 

Like, in this case, everything was normal up until I pulled into my driveway. Smoke started pouring out of the hood, but that's it. No noises, car was still running fine, etc. Just smoke and smell of coolant. No symptoms before this moment of failure. I always put oil in the car when the engine is cool. I just find it weird how random this was, with nothing more than smoke coming out of the engine (along with the smell of coolant).

 

EDIT:

 

Went out to the car today, and noticed the coolant is gone from the spark plug well. Guess it drained out over time. But anyways, kinda made a bit of progress. I started to get things out of the way, but then got distracted. Removed the battery, which gives a lot more room. Then I noticed an A/C line was in the way, that once connected to the compressor that I removed months ago. Needless to say, I ended up removing the entire A/C condenser, since I was planning on doing that for a while now. It started raining, so I'll have to get back to it later. But it looks like the four valve cover bolts will be pretty easy to get to now, so we'll have to see.


Edited by jj421, 27 March 2013 - 05:09 PM.


#64 rdweninger

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:14 AM

The picture of the sealant being used was on the oil pan.  When I resealed my motor, I did not use a gasket on the oil pan.  I used Ultra Grey.

Use only dealer Intake Gaskets.  Use FelPro permatorque head gaskets.

To answer your earlier question...  First remove the valve cover, then remove the cam tower, then remove the head.

To remove the cam tower, you will have to remove the cam sprockets (up front - where your timing belt rides).

How many miles on the motor?



#65 jj421

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

I know that that picture wasn't on a head gasket or an intake gasket, but just what is being done in the picture. I don't put sealant on the engine and gasket, then apply the gasket? I just put the gasket on dry?

 

If I'm dealing with the cam tower and cam sprockets, will that mean I will have to deal with adjusting my timing when I put everything back together? The timing belt covers are still on, so I'd have to take them off, which I hear is easiest with the engine out. And I have no idea how to do anything with the timing, and I'm probably missing some tools required for it.

 

The engine has ~262K miles.



#66 sikend667

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:41 PM

Lots of write ups on here about timing and it doesn't require any special tools. Ej swap is pretty involved but always an option. You are GOING to have to scrape gaskets just a fact of car life lol

 

ohh side note where is Sammamish? if its not too far i might be able to swing out and help 


Edited by sikend667, 28 March 2013 - 05:21 PM.


#67 jj421

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:30 PM

I guess I'll look up timing, but that's another thing that I'd like to have someone with to help, even though it doesn't seem terribly difficult.

 

I didn't have to scrape the exhaust gaskets when I did my tranny swap.  ;) Haha, but I know. Guess I should invest in a gasket scraper, since a flathead screwdriver isn't the best tool to scrape gaskets.

 

Sammamish is up north, just east of Seattle. It's a good 3 hours or so from you. If you're heading up here and wanna stop by, then come over. But otherwise, it's probably too far. 



#68 sikend667

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:35 PM

planning a trip to bremerton in the next 1-2 weeks so its a possibility and razorblade FTW as far as gasket scraping goes. timing really isnt that bad my first one only took me 3 hours so its not that bad



#69 jj421

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

Bremerton is still about an hour away, if you take the ferry. But if you can come over, that'd be great. I don't think I can really get started on fixing this for two weeks, when my next paycheck comes in.

 

Haha, I don't own a razor blade, so I still gotta go out and buy something.



#70 sikend667

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 06:32 PM

ill keep u posted im terrified of boats but i might tough it out for the ferry lol



#71 jj421

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:08 AM

Haha, you can always drive around, although that's a longer trip.

 

Classes started today, so I'm not gonna have really any time or money to work on the car. Gotta pay for books and stuff. Tomorrow afternoon I'm gonna be doing the brakes on the Explorer. Probably can't get around to my car until the weekend, or at least late this week.  :unsure: Haven't even started taking anything apart. Like I said, got as far as removing the battery and the A/C condenser, but that's it.



#72 l75eya

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:48 AM

Once you've got the ac cond. And the radiator out of the way, the grille off too, getting to the outer timing belt covers isn't too difficult. Hopefully none of the plastic studs are snapped on yours otherwise you'd have to get creative to get them of buy it's really not much of a headache at all.

#73 jj421

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:44 PM

Okay, I had a couple minutes today and took off the driver side valve cover. The gasket looks in great shape, so I don't think I had a leak there. Gonna buy a new dealership gasket. Is there a way to clean the cover? The outside case is completely covered in grease, probably from a ripped CV boot some time in the car's life. I would like to clean the grease off so it's nice and shiny on the outside.  What about cleaning the inside?

 

I would like to clean up any parts I remove, so good cleaning methods would be recommended.  ^_^

 

This repair is going much slower than I had hoped. But I have no money. Right now, my parts bill is about $100, which is not a lot, but I still need to buy textbooks for school. And that doesn't include the cylinder head, head gasket, exhaust gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, etc. What are your guy's opinions on those head gasket kits from O'Reilly?


Edited by jj421, 09 April 2013 - 05:51 PM.


#74 rdweninger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:45 PM

Come on... jj421 .   Have you not read about the Felpro Permatorque HG's?   That's what we use.  torque them 5 over.  No need to retorque...ever.

  I'm sure the O'Reily ones are the cheapest they could find... but I don't know... never bought HG's from them.

FelPro 9392 PT.   Ask for it by name.   Accept NO substitutes.



#75 jj421

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:48 AM

Okay, sorry, but I have not read about them. Like I've said earlier, I've done almost no work on the inside of an engine. I'm only 17 years old, so I don't have years and years of experience. So I've never done anything like a head and head gasket replacement. I've never done any reading of the sort, although I'm always open to reading.

 

I guess I should've clarified when I mentioned the head gasket kit. I'm stupid, but not that stupid. I know they're not the best quality. I would not use the head gaskets from that kit. I'd use the FelPros like you mentioned (thanks for the part number, by the way). What I meant by that is all the other gaskets. It seems like that kit is overall a better financial deal than buying all the gaskets separately, sacrificing quality, of course. I guess I'll just get everything separate, since I'd prefer quality over quantity.

 

A quick search on O'Reilly's website shows that the head gasket they sell matches that part number. Not sure if that is what comes in the kit, but buying it separately, you get a FelPro 9392 PT, and that's it. There are no more options. 






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