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Separator plate leak.....I think


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25 replies to this topic

#1 toni1595

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:03 PM

Hello all,

    been a while since I have bothered you guys.  I finally parked my '92 Loyale due to rust, but my middle daughter has

given her 1995 Legacy to me and it has a terrible oil leak.  With over 250K on the clock, I'm not surprised that it's leaking something somewhere....

 

I have been reading about the separator plate leak and this appears to me to be in the area of this leak, unless it's the rear main seal.  Man, it is really running out of this.  It took her husband around 4 quarts to get it up here and its about 150 miles. Hell when we placed a drip pan underneath it to catch the drips, it was really coming out. I'll bet there's over a quart in the pan right now that came out after he shut it off. Although I do think he overfilled it too.

 

I am wanting to get this car up and going because my son has a 2002 Chevy Prizm and it is burning a lot of oil and we need to do a ring job on that, so we'll fix this up and he can use that in the interim.

 

Anyways my main question is, I know I have to either pull the engine or drop the tranny, which do you guys recommend?

 

Thanks, Toni



#2 Caboobaroo

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:51 PM

I always find it is easier to pull the engine, then remove the transmission, especially if you don't have access to a lift.

If I had to do it, I would replace the separator plate with a new metal one from Subaru, along with the rear main seal and wrist pin access o-ring. Of course I would also fix any other leaks while it was out too but if you don't have a lot of time, then reseal what's needed and drop back in.

#3 987687

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:01 PM

If you don't have a lift and trans jack, definitely pull the engine.

Also check the oil pan carefully. The rust through and leak oil like this. I had one where the baffle thing in the oil pan came loose and left a hole where it's spot welded to the pan that really hemorrhaged oil.



#4 ocei77

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 04:12 PM

If the rear main is not really leaking, leave it. A little seepage is ok.

 

O.



#5 lmdew

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:24 PM

Oil seperator plate most likely.  Leave the rear main alone they almost never fail unless someone has changed it already.



#6 toni1595

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:05 AM

Well thanks for your replies guys.

 

As far as pulling the engine, I am concerned about the A/C.  Won't that have to be unhooked?  I guess it can be and then just recharged afterwards...

 

I do have a tranny jack, it's a homemade apparatus, but it works pretty good.  And I do have a good set of ramps. Ones that I made myself, so they are a lot higher than the store bought ones.

 

As you can see I'm leaning towards pulling transmission what are the pros and cons of this?

 

Toni



#7 987687

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:08 AM

You don't have to discharge the AC. You can unbolt the compressor and swing it to the side far enough to pull out the engine. The hoses have enough play. Same thing with the powersteering pump, you don't have to disconnect it, just unbolt it from the engine.

 

Pulling the trans laying on the ground is sucky, I'd pull the engine. Also, it's going to be a lot easier to work on the back of the engine if you're not in an uncomfortable position under the car.



#8 toni1595

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:56 PM

OK, pull the engine it is..

 

I'll kind of wait until the weather gets a little better, quite cold in Maine right now.  I will get the new plate though, do one of you guys know the part number on this plate?  I assume it will be a dealer only part.  

 

Also, while I'm thinking of it, what happen to the old threads?  Did they get tossed?  I was wondering what the mileage was when I last worked on this beast to see if the timing belt was ready to be replaced.  Most likely it's time to do it anyways. Especially is there's any question, I don't want to crash the engine if it's an interference type. Does it pay to buy one of those kits that has the water pump and idlers in it or just change the belt alone?   I don't plan on running this too much longer anyways.

 

Thanks

 

Toni



#9 987687

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:03 PM

95 is a non-interferance engine. If you're not going to change the tensioners, honestly, I don't see the point in changing the belt. Usually they fail because one of the tensioners (usually the teethed one) or waterpump seizes or falls apart.

Currently I have brand new in box a timing belt for that engine and the big bearing for the tensioner.
I'm actually going to be up in Orono this weekend selling an engine to someone, if you want, I'll let you have those things cheap.

edit: there's also a bnib waterpump in there.

Edited by 987687, 03 April 2013 - 02:19 PM.


#10 toni1595

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:01 PM

Well thanks 987687, I appreciate the gesture.  Not sure what a "bnib" waterpump is, unless it's a brand of it, but I could probably use it.

 

I would be interested in these parts and my son is going to school at U of M, may be able to work something out that way.

 

I'll private message you and work out the details.

 

Toni.



#11 bratman18

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:02 PM

Bnib=brand new in box



#12 toni1595

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:57 AM

Thanks bratman, that makes sense.......



#13 987687

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 05:06 PM

Sorry, I get all caught up in being lazy and using jargon. Hopefully it we can get it all worked out on Sunday.



#14 toni1595

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 06:38 PM

Well I'm finally getting to this engine pull.  I do have one question.  There appears to be some amount of oil on the top of the engine block itself.  I can't see where it would have come from except for maybe the gaskets on the head. Does that sound plausible or is there some other reason that the oil is sitting there? It seems to be on both sides on the top, of course it is mixed in with a bunch of dirt and debris, which I am planning on cleaning up some.

 

Has anyone seen this type of thing before? Should I consider replacing the head gaskets?

 

Thanks



#15 987687

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 06:40 PM

Well I'm finally getting to this engine pull.  I do have one question.  There appears to be some amount of oil on the top of the engine block itself.  I can't see where it would have come from except for maybe the gaskets on the head. Does that sound plausible or is there some other reason that the oil is sitting there? It seems to be on both sides on the top, of course it is mixed in with a bunch of dirt and debris, which I am planning on cleaning up some.

 

Has anyone seen this type of thing before? Should I consider replacing the head gaskets?

 

Thanks

 

Some of it is likely leaking out the bottom of the oil fill tube where it goes to the valve cover. Those o-rings always leak.

Also, the oil pressure sender is probably leaking, those also leak fairly often.



#16 MilesFox

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:54 PM

oil on top of the block is either seeped steering fluid (which uses dextron II/III ATF) or oil from the sending unit under the alternator that leaks where the terminal is crimped on. 



#17 toni1595

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 05:23 PM

Well that don't sound all that bad then.....I check these spots carefully when I clean the top of this up and see if I can see anything that looks new.

 

Thanks



#18 toni1595

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:25 AM

Well I have the motor out and trying to decide whether to replace the rear main seal or not...It does look like it has some oil or grease spots around the seal face, but I can't say if it's really leaking or not.  Would be real easy to do with this out though and I do have quite a bit of experience replacing oil seals as I have been in the maintenance field for most of my working life.

 

So do I or don't I? This does have 254K on the odometer, so it has some time on it.

 

Also what is the other small cover that's across from the separator plate? Does this have a gasket too?

 

And which hole does the pre-loctited screw go into?   I'll probably notice it when I remove the plastic one I guess.

 

Thanks



#19 ocei77

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:39 PM

can't find a ref pic of rear of block, but unless you see a lot of oil, more than an inch wide from the rear main, I'd leave it.

The other plate is the access for wrist pins. there is an O ring in there. Some replace the O ring, others just ultra grey the unit.

The upper left of the new  metal plate should have an arrow next to bolt hole. This is where the special screw goes.

 

O.

 

Found a link. Engine is DOHC, but the rear is the same, just scroll down.

http://www.rs25.com/...ting-block.html


Edited by ocei77, 12 May 2013 - 03:46 PM.


#20 toni1595

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:10 PM

Well I had the engine out, repaired the crankshaft nose where the woodruff keyway was chewed out (TIG welded the worn area and dremeled it back to a good keyway again), loctited the crank gear this time, resealed all of the possible oil leak covers, replaced the rear main seal and harmonic balancer,

installed the new timing belt and water pump and now have the engine back in.

 

My question now is: what is the torque value for the 4 bolts that hold the drive plate to the torque converter?

 

I do have an All Data subscription and it doesn't say. I emailed them and they couldn't give me an answer either.

 

Does anyone on this forum know what this may be? They are only 8mm I think, so it would most likely be in the 30-40 ft.lb range I suspect.

 

I know this has gone on for a while, but it seemed to rain every weekend up here and this has really only been a part time project.

 

Thanks



#21 Gloyale

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:49 PM

That sounds about right for torque.

 

Pretty much as tight as you can get'em with one hand with a 12mm box end wrech.



#22 ShawnW

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:50 PM

Flex plate is 52.8 pounds.

 

Check for play in the crank before you get too far.  Grab the nose of the crank and move it front to back.  If its moving and makes a little clunk noise you are done.  That's the cause of the leak-you won't be able to stop it and worse yet the engine is on its last legs.  Expect 30-45K or less.  A seal around the the oil pump is about the only thing I can think of that would cause that other than lack of oil changes.



#23 toni1595

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

I'm sorry Shawn, but that can't be the correct torque value. I believe you are referring to the drive plate to crank end, I think that is about right for that.

 

These are the bolts that are connecting the drive plate to the torque converter and they are only 8mm, so at that torque, I would fear breaking them off.

 

I didn't detect any movement in the crank when I had it tore down, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

I have resealed the oil pump already the last time this crapped out, in fact I did all of the oil seals on the front section of the motor. Hopefully that will hold up.

 

On the bolt torque, I did finally get an answer from the local Subaru dealer, they are  saying it's 18 ft/lbs, so I'm a little high I guess at 35.

 

Toni.



#24 987687

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:26 PM

Since it's impossible to get a torque wrench on those without removing the intake manifold, I just get them nice and tight 12mm wrench. I've never had one fall apart doing that yet. Just get them all kinda the same and it'll be fine.



#25 ShawnW

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:32 AM

Yes, you are right I thought you were talking the plate to the crankshaft like you said.  






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