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Real pain in the rear....


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10 replies to this topic

#1 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:13 PM

Ned decided he didn't wanna start again... Took him to a shop 3 weeks ago, and they had him for two weeks with my phantom no start issue. He wouldn't die for the first few days, then he finally died, and they confirmed it was a fuel delivery issue. Then they needed to get my permission to run additional tests on him but I was at work. I called them back a few hours later and gave permission for him to be hooked up to a "scope test" which would pinpoint WHICH part of my fuel system had failed... Ned for over 10 days wouldn't die on them while hooked up to the scope test... So they dropped the additional fees and told me that he was running fine and to bring him back in when he died... They gave me a list of what was done:

 

Notes: Isolated all subsystems to verify source of problem, but vehicle has started and ran as it should since.

Verified that when cranking, RPM sensor sends message to PCM to activate fuel pump. Vehicle starts and the sensor is no longer involved (disconnected sensor and did not affect vehicle running)

 

Problem could be:

PCM

Ignition Switch

Pump Relay

Fuel Pump

 

Where should I start? My idea was to start with the ignition switch because I can remove the key while driving and turn it off with a screw driver ---- although the car requires the key in the ignition to start

Where is the fuel pump relay located? I had read it was under the hood, and labeled, but mine was not labeled to my knowledge?

 

Vehicle is a 1986 Subaru GL Sedan. 5 speed D/R. 190k miles on EA82 engine with weber carb minus emission systems/vac lines



#2 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:17 PM

I think this should be noted as well... Last night he died on me. I had to have my mom come give me a jump because I kept trying for a few minutes and the battery died. I charged the battery over night and hooked it all back up... as he was cranking, my rpm gauge was bouncing up and down as high as 1200 and back to zero and then rose when the engine kicked over. The RPMs rose up to 2000 and climbed for about a minute to about 2500, then the engine died and the symptoms of starting and then dying came back, finally after maybe 10 minutes of starting/dying and re-cranking, the battery died...

 

Kinda worries me that I just had a brand new maxima alternator installed and less than a week later had a brand new Interstate battery installed, that 10 minutes of trying to restart the car killed the battery already...

 

But the bouncing RPM gauge didn't ever seem to happen UNLESS he was having this issue.

 

Heres the video of when he died on me awhile back...

 

I also don't seem to have this issue until Im below half a tank, and I know the wiring for the fuel level sensor is messed up in the trunk (water damaged) but apparently those are not related (according to the shop)


Edited by 92_rugby_subie, 02 April 2013 - 03:22 PM.


#3 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:14 AM

Bump - is Ned really the first EA82 to experience this?



#4 Subruise

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:36 PM

fuel pump relay is above the fusebox. there is a row of four round relays. one is the fp. i think its a blue connector but i havent been in there in awhile. relays rarely fail but it is possible. perhaps a wonky fusible link

 

 

just realized i forgot to state the obvious.....fuel pump , bra


Edited by Subruise, 04 April 2013 - 09:50 PM.


#5 naru

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 03:39 PM

 

Ned decided he didn't wanna start again... Took him to a shop 3 weeks ago, and they had him for two weeks with my phantom no start issue. He wouldn't die for the first few days, then he finally died, and they confirmed it was a fuel delivery issue.
 
Where should I start?

 
Measure voltage at the pump.
Good voltage(and ground)at the pump eliminates fusible link,relay and ignition switch problems from the fuel delivery issue.

If it really is worse w/less fuel,perhaps you have a pinhole in the suction line inside the tank.
A fuel pressre check would be great.

My money is on a bad pump.

#6 man on the moon

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 10:17 PM

I second the fuel pump. Mine would do this off and on occasionally. Eventually I had to whack it with a hammer handle to get it to start. I'm not sure what a carb pressure pump runs; the FI ones are a couple hundred bucks, so a good idea to be damn sure before you replace it.


That said, I always like to start with the cheapest option when there are several possible culprits. A relay is only a couple bucks. The relays are located above the knee-board by the steering column. In the Loyale there are two square relays, one blue and one brown. One ignition and one fuel (Chilton's, etc will label them). Should be similar in the earlier gens.



#7 Caboobaroo

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:43 PM

I've actually seen this issue recently. Like everyone else said, the fuel pump would be where I start.

#8 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:00 AM

Just an update.

 

Sikend667 came over on Sunday, and Ned fired right up.... kinda sucked, needed him to show the issues I was having... we BS'd for a bit then headed to the junkyard (painful experience as I saw the Legacy I put a lot of time/work/money into that was sold to be rebuilt for the daughter of the purchaser.... 

 

Anyway, found the PERFECT GL to take the fuel pump off of.. an 85/86 GL that had a "Support Your Local Hookers, PLAY RUGBY" sticker on it... (See my username) and took the fuel pump and some fusible links too...


Got home, my fusible links were toast... so we put the newer/nicer ones in and still, Ned fired right up.... so we left it alone... next morning (Monday) I went to go to work and Ned ran, then died... and in a panic I grabbed the tools and used fuel pump and swapped it out... cleaned my hands, got a jumpstart (bad battery) and Ned fired up... and been running fine... as some can recall, I have the issue when hes cold, Monday night was a bit chilly, still fired right up... pretty confident that the fuel pump was the issue... I plan to drain the tank and get rid of the crap thats been collecting on the bottom so that it doesnt get into another fuel pump and muck with the reliability of little Ned.

 

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies! I appreciate the board everyday :D



#9 Caboobaroo

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:50 PM

Wish I could have stayed around a bit to chat while you two were at the yard in Sherwood but I had to make the long drive back to Seattle...

Glad it worked out for you though!

#10 Sandrion

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

Just a thought, but when you clean the tank out, put a see through in-line fuel filter BEFORE the pump, I done this and has saved me a lot of heartache, as it catches everything that could possibly get to the pump, and I can slide under the car and check it out anytime I need to. Just go to a parts house and get the biggest see through filter they have. Should only cost three dollars or so.


Edited by Sandrion, 10 April 2013 - 08:57 PM.


#11 Gloyale

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:11 PM

Get a spare Fuel pump relay.  It's not a typical round 4 wire subaru relay.

 

The carbed cars use a 6 prong "relay" actually called a "rev sensor" or "fuel pump control unit" FPCU.

 

It's mounted above the hood release cable.






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