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Super beetle struts?


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25 replies to this topic

#1 Uberoo

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:53 PM

I heard a rumor along time ago that the strut inserts for a VW super beetle would fit inside EA type struts giving a bit more travel. IIRC something like 2" more suspension travel. I was putting some stiffer tempo springs in my struts and I found out the driver side top nut had worked itself loose and messed up the shaft pretty good as well as most of the threads.

 

seeing as I have to replace it anyway why not upgrade.So has anyone else heard about or seen the super beetle strut insert mod?

 

 

Also for the record: Ford tempo springs WILL work in our struts.YES they have different specs so at first glance it looks like they wont.The spring rate is about 1.5 to 2X times stronger than the stock springs so they help with heavy bumpers,ej's,etc..Secondly, they are about 1/2" smaller in diameter than the stock springs.So when your fitting the springs the will move around on the perch a little. Once everything is tight they wont move. If it bothers you a couple of tack welds on the spring perch will hold them solid,just tack weld it while you have the strut apart.Thirdly depending on the year of the tempo springs you will have to cut 1-2 coils from the bottom of the spring to make the springs the same length as a stock spring.



#2 Subruise

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:26 AM

i recently aquired a set of said struts with coilovers installed and ea81 strut tops. they are modified to accept ea82 knuckles. umm... they are huge... i have a 4" lift in the garage with full on 4" xmember drop and it wont be able to soak those up. i have rears equally as big but have no idea what they came from. i got both of these from the same upstanding gentleman i bought my 78  BRAT from..



#3 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:41 AM

Yes, the Ford Tempo Spring Coils works... I use my Subaru "BumbleBeast" with those since many years ago.

 

As you can See, Here: ~► http://www.ultimates...ils-on-loyales/

 

I heard a rumor along time ago that the strut inserts for a VW super beetle would fit inside EA type struts giving a bit more travel. IIRC something like 2" more suspension travel. I was putting some stiffer tempo springs in my struts and I found out the driver side top nut had worked itself loose and messed up the shaft pretty good as well as most of the threads.

 

Sounds pretty interesting... Have you searched among the VW community -online- for its Measurements?

 

Kind Regards.



#4 monstaru

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:18 AM

i recently aquired a set of said struts with coilovers installed and ea81 strut tops. they are modified to accept ea82 knuckles. umm... they are huge... i have a 4" lift in the garage with full on 4" xmember drop and it wont be able to soak those up. i have rears equally as big but have no idea what they came from. i got both of these from the same upstanding gentleman i bought my 78  BRAT from..

If you got those from Billy Omlin.I built them.

They are VW struts , that i added the bottoms and tops to.

I saw this thread and was trying to remember exactly what I did,or find pics....

 

 

AND, I would lke to get them from you.

Let me know.I was just thinking about these the other day.When I saw his big for sale post.

cheers


Edited by monstaru, 12 April 2013 - 08:19 AM.


#5 ivans imports

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:12 AM

hmm have some super bettle struts will have to go look now



#6 monstaru

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:12 AM

There are two different lengths.I chose the longer setup because I was building them for my death buggy.

 

You basically have to make the housing.By cutting the bottom mount off of both strut tubes.Then weld the EA series bottom on.(or whatever you are using)

Then IIRC , the top hat needs to be clearanced a skosch to fit the threaded hold down shaft through it.

 

I added the coilover springs as a secondary to the ones SUbruise has to see if I could make it multi level dampening like the big boy toys.

 

Then I scrapped the project and traded them off to Billy.

 

cheers



#7 Uberoo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

Sounds good. Subruise any chance of some pictures of everything thats been done to them?Monstaru so there are two different lengths.Do you remember what aplication is the shorter one for a car based wheeler?



#8 86hatchback

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:49 PM

The longer ones I'm pretty sure are 71-73 the other ones are late 73 up. The late ones have a strut connection like the ej struts . The early ones bolt to the spindle and the ball joint.

#9 monstaru

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:52 PM

Look up the struts on Monroe's website. I think it is before 72 that Is smaller.But that's what research is for......

#10 Uberoo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:41 PM

Monroe doesn't list anything for EA81's so bear with me.
FWD EA82
14.5" compressed,20.625 extended, 6.125" of travel
 
4WD EA82
12.875" compressed,18.625 extended,5.75" of travel
 
71-73 super beetle
14.5" compressed,20.625 extended,6.125" of travel
 
74-80 super beetle
14.25" compressed,22.125" extended,7.875" of travel
 
From that list it would seem that FWD EA82 struts have more travel than 4wd struts.Although I don't trust the numbers because a stock OEM tokico FWD EA82 strut is just under 16" compressed,is 22 .125" extended and has 6.125" of travel.

Edited by Uberoo, 13 April 2013 - 12:11 AM.


#11 monstaru

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:32 AM

The point of looking up the struts was to see that the later VW strut cartridge is what I used. I designed mine for 8 inches of travel.
It technically could be run with about an 8" lift.IIRC
cheers

#12 Uberoo

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:50 PM

that is fortunate because I have an 8" lift.I just need do some some experimenting with my old struts... :)



#13 Uberoo

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:03 PM

So I picked up some late super beetle struts and they wont fit into the existing strut body.They are roughly 2mm too big or .09".So I guess I have to weld on the mounts from the ea82 strut.To anybody following this there is a 70% chance that you will need to add oil to the strut when your done.If your welds don't seal the strut is ruined.I am most of the way through making the first strut, a right side, and already ive gotten three pin-hole leaks that ive had to fix.Right now I have a 1/8" hole near the top of the strut that I drilled just to drain out the oil so I can weld everything up without oil spraying in my face.Also try to keep the valve as far away as possible from where your welding,IE if welding at the top the rod should be pushed all the way in.

 

 

So far I haven't had any problems with stuff wanting to explode on me.When I first started I was tack welding the tab that mounts the strut to the hub and it sprung a leak and sprayed oil through a pin-hole leak in the weld and coated my truck with oil...


Edited by Uberoo, 17 April 2013 - 10:19 PM.


#14 monstaru

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:55 PM

Except , the Super Beetle struts are inserts.
You need the VeeWee strut body to weld to.
Seriously? Did you not get the "insert" part?
Once again. NO pics. How do you expect people to help you with no reference of what you are doing.

The smaller struts were what was used to insert into the existing bodies. IIRC.....
You are actually better off buying tube and mounting the bottoms of the struts to it. And make spring perches.And, AND, AND.,.,.,,,,

THen make a collar to hold the strut in the body threaded on the top.
Please don't do spoob if your gonna put others in danger.

Edited by monstaru, 17 April 2013 - 11:27 PM.


#15 Ioku

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:27 PM

In my search for longer struts I came across a posible option useing volvo 240 strut inserts, they have 8.25 inches of travel, my plan is to use them in a EJ front strut housing. They are 44.5mm around but I still need to open up a subaru strut and see if they will fit.



#16 Uberoo

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:38 PM

Here is what I have so far.

 

A stock FWD EA82 strut on the left and the VW strut insert on the right

 

notice how much more travel the VW insert has. :)

 

I cut open the stock EA82 strut.

 

Originally I wanted to simply stuff the VW strut insert into the EA82 strut and call it a day,but that wont work.The VW strut is 2 mm larger in diameter than the inside of the EA82 strut.So since that wouldn't work I decided that I was going to weld the mounts from the ea82 strut onto the VW strut insert.The OD of the VW strut is 1.649" and the OD the subaru strut is 1.75 so I needed a spacer.So I got some 1 .75" exhaust tubing to use as a spacer.The VW strut won't quite fit into the exhaust tubing so I cut the exhaust tubing along the weld to open it up,and then welded the spacer to the insert.Then I cut off the subaru strut mount as well as the spring perch and welded them to the "Strut".I set the spring perch an inch higher than stock to gain a little bit of height.Here is what I have so far.

 

I am going to weld a sleeve over the middle of the VW strut insert to give it some strength as well as finish welding everything on the strut. On the other side I will just weld the exhaust tubing sleeve over the entire strut insert to save myself some steps.I will also take pics of the various steps along the way.


Edited by Uberoo, 19 April 2013 - 05:54 PM.


#17 monstaru

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:32 PM

I really wanted to try an help. But that is the dumbest thing you could have done.
I would start over.
Welding flange metal (like double layered, sticking out and away from strut body) is one thing. But directly to the strut body is foolish. Especially if you can't even control your welding heat properly.

The ONLY possible way to do it safely is not do it.


This is not even going to damper besides what the spring will accomplish now.
You just ruint your strut.
Go buy another strut ,And some tube, then cut and paste.

#18 Uberoo

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

Why is the strut ruined?My welds are sealed and dont leak and I didn't deform the inner wall of the tube at all so the rod still slides smoothly along its entire travel.Once I am done welding I will fill it back up with oil and add a schrader valve to replace the air that was lost .Im My mind once it is full of the correct amount of oil and air pressure again it should work just like a normal strut.I welded as far away as possible from the valve so everything should be fine. After all a strut really is no different from a shock fork on on a motorcycle or bike..



#19 monstaru

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:51 PM

Yeah, In your mind.
It is a sealed cartridge for a reason.
It's just not that simple. The task at hand ,that is.

Edited by monstaru, 19 April 2013 - 10:08 PM.


#20 Uberoo

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:56 AM

its a sealed cartridge because it allows the strut to be pressurized with nitrogen to reduce the oil cavitating . I said that once I was done it was gonna be filled with the correct amount and weight of oil and then pressurized with nitrogen.So assuming I didn't melt or other wise mess up the strut valving when I was welding it WILL behave exactly like stock. 



#21 monstaru

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:55 AM

your codswalloping retarded.....



#22 Uberoo

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:40 PM

dur dee dee



#23 torxxx

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:25 PM

now now girls.....



#24 Gloyale

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 11:25 AM

.So assuming I didn't melt or other wise mess up the strut valving when I was welding it WILL behave exactly like stock.

 

That's a pretty big assumption.  Those welds don't look controlled enough to NOT have transfered heat to the interior wall.



#25 monstaru

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 02:07 PM

He has a lot of assumptions......Like thinking he can tune shocks ,or thinking he can weld. 

These will not work worth a spoob, then he'll ask why we think it didna work... :rolleyes:

dumbass

FOR ANYONE READING THIS, THIS IS NOT SAFE TO DO. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS!!!! TUNING SHOCKS IS A FINE SCIENCE.ONE THAT OUR OP IS ASSUMING IS EASY.IT IS DANGEROUS AND STUPID .






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