EJ Body failure points

[torxxx]

Just wondering if anyone else out there has had any issues with the EJ cars and ripping out the captive nuts in the unibody?

 

I ended up breaking off both captive nuts inside the unibody on the rear crossmember.  Gutted the interior of the car last night, gonna goto the shop and drill into a junk Gen 2 Legacy body and find out exactly where those captive nuts are inside the body and try and figure a way to plate it and reinforce it.

 

started getting a weird knock/clunk last night after wheeling.  Had my wife grab the roof rack and shake the car side to side.  Play @ the lift block and all bolts are tight...

 

wooohoo for breaking stuff I guess

 

 

[flight_of_pain]

The early gen guys weld in fender washers to spread the load on the framerail better. The better solution would probably be to add "C" channel to the framerails, that is what I did on my ej rear suspension into ea81 swap.

 

Isaac

[torxxx]

thats kinda what I was leaning towards.  I first thought of just plating it, but the C channel with give it a little more strength, and I can weld some reinforcements between the C to help strengthen it.   I'm wondering if I just fix the one side, or do I get nasty and do the entire rear of the car?  we just got mud and its time to play!

 

 

Edited May 2, 2013 by torxxx

[flight_of_pain]

 If you are doing one side... might as well do them both

[torxxx]

if I had a place to park it over the weekend, the entire rear lift would come off and be redone.  Everything should be tied together as far as the front goes and then the rear on its own.

 

I've found a few of issues with SJR 6 inch lift that needs to be improved on if the car is planned on being offroaded.  It managed to baby it through the winter but now that its not just all wheel spin and crashing into soft snow all the weak points are starting to show.  Lift blocks bending, not saying Scott did a bad job, the lift installed semi-nicely but there is definitely parts that could/should have had some reinforcements welded in.   This cars never been jumped, mostly just snow bashing in hood deep snow.  taken some hits in the front but never the rear.   Makes me wonder if any of the guys that make track cars ever run into the fastener failure issue on the body?  One would think autocrossing would but a fair amount of stress on a lot of the same locations. 

 

Rounding up the tools now, guess the good news is I get to rip the SVX today. hehehe time to listen to the catless system scream

[Rooster2]

Like the looks of your OBW. Gotta be fun in the snow.

 

Without a full frame like in a Jeep Wrangler, the Subie in stock trim is not up to doing off roading. It was never designed to do that. With enough rework you can create enough strength to keep the suspension together. Have fun !!

[torxxx]

just got back from the fab shop.  Sounds like my fab guy is down to tube up the outback.  So now I'm at a crossroad... Park the OB thats only seen maybe 5 days of mud since the lift and rebuild/transfer parts from my 86 GL to my 92 Loyale so I have something to wheel this summer.  Found a set of Yota axles for 80 bucks.  Rear and Steer.  Fab guy has the tubing for 4 link and just happens to have a sammy T-case sitting on the shelf for me.  

 

EG33 + solid axles+sammy tcase + 33" swampers?  hehehe

[flight_of_pain]

The autocrossers and roadracers put a lot of stress on things, but it cant compare to the extra leverage a lift block can apply.

[NorthCoast]

Just wondering if anyone else out there has had any issues with the EJ cars and ripping out the captive nuts in the unibody?

 

I've broken a few of them. I haven't beefed any thing up though.  I've been too busy playing with the Impreza.

[torxxx]

I just got done cutting into it, to see what all is involved.  I think I'm gonna get rid of all of Subarus crap back there.  The spare tire place is getting cut out completely and plated off into something useful like a toolbox.  as for their so called floor back there, I'm gonna get rid of any single layer sheet metal (I dont see single layer being a structural support) but none the less I will be replacing what I cut out with 3/16" flat stock.   I may add a crossbar in as well to keep the "frame rails"  (Where the unibody is the thickest) and make a upper crossmember just to tie everything back together.  C channel will be placed into the existing channel where the crossmember bolts up, then bolt the crossmember back in place, drive it to the shop where I can start welding everything back together.   

 

Now back to more cutting!

[NorthCoast]

Pics?

[Fairtax4me]

Lookin awesome on those snowtrakkers! Have those on my 96 and im always surprised at how well they do in the red clay mud here.

What size are you running?

[torxxx]

235/75/15

 

cheap tires that hold up good for a year or two.    

 

I'll get some pics tommorow after I vacumn up all the metal shavings and sound deadener chunks.  

[Gloyale]

The autocrossers and roadracers put a lot of stress on things, but it cant compare to the extra leverage a lift block can apply.

 

This is the key to it here.  The lift block make leveraged force on the nut side to side, that it would never see under normal situations when the subframe is bolted right ot that point.

 

This is why some HighGuys 4" and all HighGuys 6" kits are crossbraced on the rear suspension.  So the blocks can't wiggle side to side and stress the unibody and captive nuts.  Not to mention the safety issue of driving around and having the subframe shifting under you.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Gloyale

[torxxx]

Mine is crossbraced...... I just started looking at it one day and figured it would be a good idea to weld a piece of 2x2 1/4" wall tubing in there

 

The issue is 3 layers of sheet metal is all that holds the captive nuts in place.  I'm guessing its maybe 3/16" thick where the rear crossmember attaches.  3 layers of 1/16" sheet metal (or what ever the metric thickness is they used)    Had I known that the metal back there was that thing, I would have rebuilt that area before the lift went on.   Now I'm doing surgery in my yard with limited tools cuz thats where the car stands.

 

My lift came with the lack of any instructions what so ever that came.  The one piece of writing that came with the kit was a bag of 4 washers that said Rear crossmember..  Funny cuz they go inbetween the tranny spacer and the control arm spacer. a $1000 dollars spent and I couldn't get a piece of paper with some writing on it?  Makes me wonder if the kit was ever tested, or if Tron was the first one to get that lift and I was the second?

Bolt in brackets for the rear could have been easily welded on by the guy building the lift, (and then the consumer installs the bar after the lift is put on)  Nothing was mentioned to me about putting the brace back there,

 

 I will say it now, Do not buy a 6 inch SJR lift for the 95-99 EJ body styles, unless he makes some drastic design changes.  At least AA lift came with a guide on what was the easiest/fastest way to install the kit.  And they have reinforcments welded in at stress points.  I can say I beat my GL wagon to hell and back in the 8 years its been lifted and the body point failures were minimal compared to the destruction thats happened to my Outback in 6 months.  The Outback got babied everwhere I went and yet I still see major failures in several areas?  holes in the lift blocks having to be remilled because they we not drilled true, having to replace bolts that came with the kit with new bolts that actually fit tighter to limit movement.    Oh heres some strut tower blocks, but I'm not going to tell you which direction they need to be installed.....  

 

 

So I'm open for suggestions, do I weld some C channel in there and reinforce everything or start from scratch and make a Solid axle rig?   I'm so fed up with this that I might just start up my chevy project.. at least there will be a frame to bolt to 

Edited May 3, 2013 by torxxx

[flight_of_pain]

Don't give up on the outback, she looks so fine!

[Gloyale]

A piece of flatbar across the floor of the trunk, with tabs on each end that go up each rear strut tower and bolt to them.

 

Then run your bolts up through the floor through that flatbar with some big washers.  A box piece that craddles over the original "beam" and meets the floor is a good idea too.

[torxxx]

yah thats what we are gonna do.  Going to drill the cracked in the body metal and weld/fill them, grind them flat.  weld a flat piece of strap to the bottom of the car, fill the channel with C, bolt crossmember back up and then slowly stitch weld the C channel in place to the strut town and the crossbrace that sits behind the fuel tank. 

 

basically going to make it so we can go wheeling again.  Once the snows gone I'll rebuild the entire rear of the car... If the snow ever stops up here lol

[Scott in Bellingham]

I've found a few of issues with SJR 6 inch lift that needs to be improved on if the car is planned on being offroaded.  

 

 

 I will say it now, Do not buy a 6 inch SJR lift for the 95-99 EJ body styles, unless he makes some drastic design changes.  

 

Thank You for your input,the new kit has evolved from the first few, sorry you had trouble with something I made,I had ran that kit on my own personal car for 1-1/2 years without a issue, then sold the car and the new owner had the same issue you had, I took that into consideration along with other improvement to come up with what I offer today  its here if you want to view it   http://www.sjrlift.com/index.php/catalog/lift-kits/0-6-lift-kit-ej-fits-90-99-detail  this guy  'Subie57'  just got the new kit and started a build thread on his 95 Impreza   here  http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/138102-lifting-my-95-impreza/   give him a while to post much as he just got going on it,  Scott  Owner and builder  SJR lift

[torxxx]

thanks for upgrading the kit, this one looks a lot better than the one I got.   As for the rear x-member brace, that flat stock will do for a daily driver but if the car is going anywhere offroad it needs 2x2 square tubing.  If I was to redo mine, I would have made a U channel slider with a bolt hole drilled through it so you arent having to use that flat stock, and it will save on shipping.  Each rear x-member block would have a U on the inside where the consumer cuts a piece of 2x2 1/4" wall square tube drilled a hole in each end and slides it up into place and bolts it on.  

 

The tranny blocks look 100% better and the rear trailer arm/diff hanger block is a way better design.  it keeps the diff up where its more protected (assuming the semi circle holes are for the mustache bar to fit into?)

 

One last thing, on your rear x-member blocks, could you drill the 3rd hole in the center of the lift block?  There is a captive nut there, having 3 bolts might help out more than 2.  On the outback there is a little plastic tab that is used to line up the outback lift block and it sticks up into that hole.  its dead center between the existing holes.  

 

And yea I've posted on Subie57's thread, hopefully he gets some time to respond

[torxxx]

 

 

 

Used 1/2" plate up top and 3/16" on the bottom.  I was going to weld in some other braces to help stiffen up that area of the car, but until I get the fuel tank out of the way, this is gonna have to work for not.  I dont see an issue happening with that part again. 

 

[NorthCoast]

Check your front blocks too.  My ALK blocks bent laterally and twisted. The pic below is after only two trips to Walker. My rear trailing arm blocks are also bent about 3/4" down at the front where the mustache bar attaches.  Here's a pic of the ALK block.

 

 

 

The other side isn't as bad but still bent laterally about 1/2".  Thankfully Scott warrantied them.

 

New lift blocks are in place now but not as beefy looking as the pics on the web site.  I was expecting square tubing to tie the pieces together but it's only angle iron.  Also, I had to take a uni-bit to one of the blocks because the holes didn't line up exactly.  Waiting on the trailing arm blocks before I do any trail testing.