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ej205 pistons into ea82t?


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137 replies to this topic

#51 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:23 PM

Did you mention the quote I got from him, in the post a few posts up from here?
Perhaps we could discuss this via PM?

 

I did mention it, the quote he gave me is for 1mm and 1.1mm thickness. The costs per gasket and in bulk vary depending on thickness, I assume. His pricing seems to be very shoot from the hip too, if you were ordering in bulk he could probably do a much better deal. If we all did a group buy it could probably be even cheaper. I just hate waiting for people and would rather just get'r'done.. even at my expense. Then gaskets to go would have a template for anyone to use in the future.

 

The slightly higher price on the first set might be me bothering him so much about ideas for changes and a barrage of questions too lol. I'm probably going to make a few changes to my gaskets, but give him the OEM gasket for a template if someone just wants a replica of the OEM in MLS.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 07 March 2014 - 04:29 PM.


#52 nncoolg

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:32 PM

Yeah, sounds like a plan.

#53 nncoolg

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:30 PM

By the way, what changes are you proposing?

#54 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 07:09 PM

By the way, what changes are you proposing?

 

Just cleaning up the pattern some, I was planning to trace out (carbon paper) a head and block tonight.. then check that against the OEM gasket when it arrives on mon/tue. The handful of aftermarket gaskets I have here vary so much in dimensions its ridiculous. Also I may timesert one of my blocks and use larger bolts or paeco studs too, so I'm going to ask for the bolt holes to be a little bit larger. I'll ask John @ GtG to save both the original and my template either way.



#55 rpholz

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 08:30 PM

Is the 1mm thickness compressed thickness?

#56 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:25 AM

Yessir, 1mm compressed. You can mic a MLS gasket right by a rivet and get a pretty close measurement.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 08 March 2014 - 02:26 AM.


#57 nncoolg

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 04:03 AM

I've always wondered why the outer, top coolant jackets are restricted by the gasket, do you think it's to promote more coolant flow to the exhaust side of the head?
Also puzzled me why they block off the large triangle port between the cylinders in the block, the head could be drilled to match up with that aswell...

#58 Gloyale

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:29 PM

I've always wondered why the outer, top coolant jackets are restricted by the gasket, do you think it's to promote more coolant flow to the exhaust side of the head?
Also puzzled me why they block off the large triangle port between the cylinders in the block, the head could be drilled to match up with that aswell...

 

Don't know about the top jackets but that big traingle hole is for the case half bolt access.  No coolant flow in there......that's why the gasket blocks it.



#59 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:57 PM

OEM gasket is in hand, I'll post some pics when I get home. It will go out to gasketstogo via USPS airmail tomorrow morning, first thing. I was also told that the OEM gasket will probably not be made anymore, can that be true?

 

The dealership told me they just threw away over 50 ea82 oil and air filters too. And that they would have given me them for free.  :banghead:



#60 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 05:02 PM

OEM Gasket shipped off to gaskets to go yesterday, hopefully it gets there safe in a few days..

 

Pics 1-6 are just the block/head bare and with the OEM gasket. The last is my rough stencil with the changes in dark lead (graphite?). I also requested for the bolt/stud holes to be 13.1mm instead of ~11.8-12.7mm.

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 



#61 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 05:07 PM

I think I'm going to drill out and clean up a lot of the passages on the block too, the casting is pretty shitty around the openings. Port matching head gaskets, sound so weird?



#62 nncoolg

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:51 AM

That doesn't sound weird at all aye, that's what I meaned about the 'blocked off' ports on the top, outside of the cylinders, the only thing I could think of is that MAYBE it is to promote a lower block flow bias.

Some work can be done to the water inlet port, behind the water pump too, get stuck into that with the die grinder!



#63 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:48 AM

That doesn't sound weird at all aye, that's what I meaned about the 'blocked off' ports on the top, outside of the cylinders, the only thing I could think of is that MAYBE it is to promote a lower block flow bias.

Some work can be done to the water inlet port, behind the water pump too, get stuck into that with the die grinder!

 

Yea, I was looking at that too. I'm not sure why they would want to restrict flow in that area. The blocked ports at the top right of my stencil would be near the turbo on the passenger side too. I know based on simple physics that as water moves faster and faster has diminishing returns on cooling. But I can't see such a restricted head having that problem. I'll give the changes a try and keep an eye on the head temps with an IR thermo.

 

Thanks for the tips, I'll see where else on the block some porting can help.

 

Really just a new 2 row rad w/modern dual fans, a beefy oil cooler, and a frozen boost AWIC (type 14) would do leaps and bounds.

 

 

 

Now that I have the HG sorted (at least in my mind). I'll start doing the work on pistons. I may just go with an off the shelf ej20 piston and custom rods.


And ARP still has not contacted me back with a master list of all of their head studs with size/pitch/length, they love making it difficult to cross reference everything.



#64 capn_r

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:38 PM


quote
"And ARP still has not contacted me back with a master list of all of their head studs with size/pitch/length, they love making it difficult to cross reference everything."

 

If / when the do get back to you could you post that information (or provide a link, whatever would work)? I'd like to have that information myself. Thanks


Edited by capn_r, 14 March 2014 - 02:39 PM.


#65 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 05:10 PM

quote
"And ARP still has not contacted me back with a master list of all of their head studs with size/pitch/length, they love making it difficult to cross reference everything."

 

If / when the do get back to you could you post that information (or provide a link, whatever would work)? I'd like to have that information myself. Thanks

 

Just got a message back from ARP, they have but will not release a master list for head studs. You have to provide them with measurements and they will try to source off the shelf studs from other kits. I gave them the most vague measurements possible in hopes that they will list some possible candidates. Its pretty dumb they don't just have a full list of individual studs, but I can see the nightmare it could create with people ordering the wrong ones.

 

I was referred to another person in the company, he said he would get back to me on monday or tuesday.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 14 March 2014 - 05:36 PM.


#66 nncoolg

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 07:35 PM

Maybe you could just buy some stainless threaded rod and cut to length?

 

Or you could try http://headbolts.com/ they may help you match something up, being a third party...



#67 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 08:16 PM

Maybe you could just buy some stainless threaded rod and cut to length?

 

Or you could try http://headbolts.com/ they may help you match something up, being a third party...

 

I looked into grade 8 rod before, but all I could find was all cut threads and in course pitch. I would give threaded rod a try if I could find roll threads in coarse pitch for the right price.

 

I'll send headbolts an email.

I just wanted to check in again with ARP, its been a few years since anyone has asked again about ea82 studs.. And they have released a few more kits for other/newer cars. If I remember correctly they do have off the shelf studs for the shorter bolts. I'm almost temped to just counter-bore the other 6 holes on each head (14mm deep, 25mm wide) to match all 9 holes to the same depth/length.



#68 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 08:18 PM

Hrmmm:

http://www.northamer...llthreaded.html



#69 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:56 AM

So after some offtopic adventures into head gasket/stud land... back on topic.

 

The pistons I think are the best fit are Manley 615000C-4*, square dish (should provide valve reliefs) with 32.639mm pin height. It seems any square non-stroker ej20 piston that has the ~32.64mm pin height could be "close enough" by my redneck math. I have a set on order, I will confirm my numbers and physically check that the valves clear at piston TDC before proceeding.

 

CAUTION: as Quidam found on page 1, a EJ20 piston without a dish or proper valve reliefs and/or higher pin height will result in a interference motor and or piston/deck impact. The 615000C-4 pistons may still need some valve reliefs near the edges.

 

The easier option would be to buy the high compression flat top piston from RAM and use other methods to reduce the compression. I may just buy a set for the second motor and run e85.. If the MLS HG's hold on the first motor...

 

My plan for the wirst pin bore was custom rods.. But I am having trouble finding a rod maker than will make low quantities without selling my soul. In the meantime, I am going to try to rebush the stock rods with 23mm Manley replacement bushing (to match the pins). It will probably require a drill press, some beer, a 12 ton press, more beer, and a back brace for standing up for so long.

 

In case anyone wants to know.. the closest off the shelf forged rod to us would be a fiat abarth or a hayabusa lol but neither bore or width is correct.. ea82t: 117mm BB 48MM SB 21MM WIDE 19.4mm (or 23MM small bore if you go ej20 pistons).

 

(stroke duhvided by 2) + rod length + pin height +/- deck clearance = deck height

 

Stock

33.5 + ~117 + ~33 + 0 = ~183.5mm
 
ej20 32.639mm CH piston:
33.5 + ~117 + 32.639 + .361 = ~183.5mm
 
Note: DH might be closer to 183.65-184mm but I am not sure how decked my test block is. I'll have a unmolested block in the house to measure in a few days.
 
I would like to add a disclaimer to this: I would feel really bad if anyone took my advice and blew up their motor. Wait for me to confirm with the parts in hand, or hell.. don't ever take my advice. Use your eyes, your hands, and your tools (proper mics/gauges/calipers) to confirm everything..

More pictures incoming when the HG's and parts arrive..
 
EJ20-02-01.JPG
b-2.jpg


#70 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:09 AM

wiseco K588M92 would likely work too, 32.66 pin height



#71 nncoolg

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:15 AM

Maybe try these guys http://www.argorace.com.au
And these guys, I think they have done ea82s before from memory...
www.rpw.com.au

Edited by nncoolg, 18 March 2014 - 04:44 AM.


#72 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 01:33 AM

Looks like rebushing for 23mm will work fine (tho its not ideal). Gotta find some rod bolts, the oem ones have are scary as hell..

 

I found another 2680 square dish piston from a somewhat local company (Icon pistons IC638C) .010 or .038 over so I can hone to PW spec. I may return/cancel my manley order and give them a try.



#73 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 02:42 PM

OEM gasket arrived at gasket to go in Thailand safely, invoice paid for 6 gaskets!

 

I went ahead and asked them to open up the 4 coolant jackets and also increase the bolt holes to 13mm.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 24 March 2014 - 02:47 PM.


#74 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:56 PM

12 forged ej205 pistons ordered, hopefully those will arrive within a week or so.

 

3 sets ended up being cheaper than 2, never hurts to ask when buying parts.



#75 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 02:56 PM

Lookie what arrived today, still waiting on parts/machine work to start building the shortblocks.

 

Icon IC638C - ej205 off the shelf 4032 forging

 

IMG_1236.jpg

 

IMG_1225.jpg

 

IMG_1224.jpg

 

IMG_1226.jpg

 

IMG_1227.jpg

 

^^ optical illusion, the left one looks bigger.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 01 April 2014 - 02:57 PM.





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