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ej205 pistons into ea82t?


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137 replies to this topic

#101 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:11 PM

This is a great thread guys, lots of good information!

I've been playing around with doing some of this to my ER27 as I have a decently built shortblock and a couple heads with port work and Delta cams.

Keep up the good work!

 

One day, that er27 turbo project idea will bite me. But my garage is full of spoob to break before I get to the project before that project lol.

 

Speaking of er27, has anyone ever successfully converted an er27 oil pump to use with a ea82 block? I've seen a few posts flirting with it here and there.

 

Edit: Or what about milling the block to fit a er27 sleeve/impeller with a er82 pump body/pulley.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 10 June 2014 - 05:30 PM.


#102 Caboobaroo

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:51 PM

I don't plan to turbo mine, I'm looking to keep it looking stock so NA it is. I was supposed to get measurements for ARP a few months ago but never had the time so I'm intrigued into the slightly larger ones you found. Oh and the MLS gaskets are perfect, you should shoot me a PM on the cost...

As far as the oil pump, from what I can remember, the spot for the outer ring is larger and deeper then the EA82, and I think the bolt pattern is slightly different. I might be able to get some pictures this weekend of one of my spare engines.

#103 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:47 PM

I don't plan to turbo mine, I'm looking to keep it looking stock so NA it is. I was supposed to get measurements for ARP a few months ago but never had the time so I'm intrigued into the slightly larger ones you found. Oh and the MLS gaskets are perfect, you should shoot me a PM on the cost...

As far as the oil pump, from what I can remember, the spot for the outer ring is larger and deeper then the EA82, and I think the bolt pattern is slightly different. I might be able to get some pictures this weekend of one of my spare engines.

 

I bought 6 mls gaskets for $120 each from gasketstogo, John can make them from whatever template you want to provide. For future ea82 gaskets, it may be cheaper now.. not sure if he saves the dies/tooling (i would hope he does tho). Give him a call for a quote.

 

Regarding head studs, there is a 5.5" apr stud that would probably work for both the longs and short, but it only comes in 7/16". I considered trying them, but it might be pushing it for the longs (.25" ball bearing trick to fully seat the stud would work tho). Thought I should mention it if someone wants to do more homework. Getting to 75% torque load 70ft/lbs on the 7/16" is a lot more reasonable, vs 110ft/lbs on 1/2" studs (scares the hell out of me actually).

 

Re the oil pump. There isn't much meat to go that much deeper into the block, but with some welding it could be done easily. Nncoolg made a post on ausubaru with pictures, it seems doable imho. Hell it might even be possible mill off the pickup/outlet and filter mount.. tap the block and run a bypass filter. But there isn't much room to play with behind the tbelt. Could tap it from inside the pan also and block the front holes. I've been trying not to think about this because I will just want to do a dry sump..

My to do list for the next month or so: (time/money permitting)

build the first longblock

megasquirt v3.0 diy + harness (ahh the fumes)

figure out the fuel system (evo injectors/pump/surge, goodies for e85)

exhaust header (moar fumes)

awic (type 14 + type 118)

 

I wish I was rich.



#104 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:48 PM

One day, that er27 turbo project idea will bite me...

 

I had that idea too, around year 2000... and thus explains my Screen Name.

 

Even I obtained the EA82T Pistons to do that, but I had severe overheating issues with my ER27,

 

and after a huge frontal crash which cracked the block, now it became a Dead project.

 

However, I saw other people's efforts doing similar projects, here:

 

~► http://subaruxt.com/old/Pumped.htm

 

~► http://subaruxt.com/...er_pressure.htm

 

Kind Regards.



#105 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:56 PM

I had that idea too, around year 2000... and thus explains my Screen Name.

 

Even I obtained the EA82T Pistons to do that, but I had severe overheating issues with my ER27,

 

and after a huge frontal crash which cracked the block, now it became a Dead project.

 

However, I saw other people's efforts doing similar projects, here:

 

~► http://subaruxt.com/old/Pumped.htm

 

~► http://subaruxt.com/...er_pressure.htm

 

Kind Regards.

 

Bummer, I see XT6's waste away here. I usually pull the rear hubs and sway bars, then give it a moment of silence before walking away. A block could be had here at pick n pull super cheap. But they are getting more and more rare.

 

WOW that blower looks like it was made for the er27 intake!! I think it could be even better than a turbo and suits the grunty er27. Thank you for posting this!



#106 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:08 PM

Dangit, second guessing myself with those studs lol. I ordered a single ARP-AP5500-1LB to see if its feasible, before I drill my block(s).



#107 Caboobaroo

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:18 PM

Funny you should mention Megasquirt, I'm in the process of assembling a MS2 3.0 myself! I've made a run to Pick N Pull and scored a Ford EDIS6 coil, module and crank sensor but I don't think it'll work for the generic trigger wheel I have. Should be close to getting it finished and hopefully installed in the car.

And hopefully it stays drive able as it's currently my DD...

#108 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:56 PM

Funny you should mention Megasquirt, I'm in the process of assembling a MS2 3.0 myself! I've made a run to Pick N Pull and scored a Ford EDIS6 coil, module and crank sensor but I don't think it'll work for the generic trigger wheel I have. Should be close to getting it finished and hopefully installed in the car.

And hopefully it stays drive able as it's currently my DD...

 

Nice, it really does make the most sense for EM. I believe there is a website that sells trigger wheels too.

 

 

1/2" head studs came in. The only downside is that they are too tight to fit through 2 of the holes on all 3 sets of heads I have here in the house, its the 2 holes nearest the exhaust port. 

 

So my options now are:

-Ream/hone the 2 tight head holes ~0.1mm and go for 1/2"

-Go for the 5.5" 7/16 stud and make it work with the longer stud

(the 7/16 stud should arrive in the next 48, to confirm fitment)

 

Also consider 1/2" stud will require VERY precise drilling/tapping since the head holes would be tightly fit. Perhaps more precise than subaru has them drilled even. 7/16 is making more and more sense. But I was looking for more clamping force than 70ft/lbs (12k preload)... so who knows what I will do lol.

 

5.75" left and 5.25" right

IMG_1361.jpg

 

IMG_1363.jpg

 

IMG_1364.jpg



#109 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:16 PM

Eureka! I found a 7/16 stud to match the 5.5... So for anyone who digs this up in the future, the most likely candidates for head studs are..

 

7/16" studs:
ARP AP5-500-1LB ARP-AP5000-1LB
ARP AP6-000-1LB ARP AP5500-1LB
 
1/2" studs:
ARP AR5-250-1LB
ARP AR5-750-1LB
 
Edit: stud size for 7/16, see post 113.

Edited by Ibreakstuff, 14 June 2014 - 01:32 AM.


#110 nncoolg

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 06:21 AM

Yes I have an ER27 oil pump on my EA82, as well as the ER27 water pump.
Works well, oil light goes out while cranking.
It's not impossible, but there is enough differences in the timing belt setup between the two that the swap is 'interesting'
They both physically 'bolt on' to the block.
Would I bother to use ER27 pumps on my next EA82? Probably not.

#111 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:01 PM

Yes I have an ER27 oil pump on my EA82, as well as the ER27 water pump.
Works well, oil light goes out while cranking.
It's not impossible, but there is enough differences in the timing belt setup between the two that the swap is 'interesting'
They both physically 'bolt on' to the block.
Would I bother to use ER27 pumps on my next EA82? Probably not.

 

What type of oil pressures are you seeing with the er27 pump vs the ea82 pump?


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 12 June 2014 - 05:01 PM.


#112 Caboobaroo

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:58 PM

This site I used for all my MegaSquirt stuff has been www. Diyautotune.com. They have been outstanding with customer service and promptness on getting orders filled and out quickly.

I still like the headstud plan and with looking into timeserting the holes in the block, with studs and the needed timesert kit, I think I came up with ~$500 for the whole thing. I've done a few timeserts in blocks before so it's not my first rodeo with it but it can be real easy to mess it up. I'm half tempted to have the machine shop do them...

Oh and if you are looking for ER27 parts, I might be wiling to get rid of some. Only have 4 complete engines currently...

#113 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:04 PM

Headstud update, 7/16 5.5" stud arrived, the thread length is only 1" vs 1.25" on the 1/2 studs boo. I edited the post above as it ended up being too long for the shorter bolts. Luckily there is a 5" stud in 7/16.. Note the amount of counter bore required.

 

pictured left to right: ARP AP5-500-1LB - ARP AR5-750-1LB - Stock Bolt (long)

IMG_1365.jpg


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 13 June 2014 - 07:12 PM.


#114 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:11 PM

This site I used for all my MegaSquirt stuff has been www. Diyautotune.com. They have been outstanding with customer service and promptness on getting orders filled and out quickly.

I still like the headstud plan and with looking into timeserting the holes in the block, with studs and the needed timesert kit, I think I came up with ~$500 for the whole thing. I've done a few timeserts in blocks before so it's not my first rodeo with it but it can be real easy to mess it up. I'm half tempted to have the machine shop do them...

Oh and if you are looking for ER27 parts, I might be wiling to get rid of some. Only have 4 complete engines currently...

 

Yep, same place I have been shopping from. Very cool company, I hope they stick around for a long long time.

 

The inserts are pretty damn expensive, was surprising. I'll probably end up doing timeserts as well. Esp with the 7/16 studs, rethreading over 11mm seems like a bad idea. Full torque inserts look even stronger, but $$$$.

 

I'll keep that in mind for sure, I have 4 blocks and 6-7 transmissions to tear up before I start thinking about the next project lol.



#115 nncoolg

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:22 PM

"What type of oil pressures are you seeing with the er27 pump vs the ea82 pump?"

It's been a while since I had the analog dash in the car, it's digital now. From memory I think hot idle was about 1/3 of the gauge.

I'll dig up some pictures when I get time of what's involved in getting the pump to 'fit'
Unfortunately the drive shaft is different so a custom oil pump pulley needs to be made and the plastic timing belt case needs to be altered because the bottom of the pump is a little different in shape.
The same goes for the water pump, the casting is a little bit different in shape and also requires some timing cover mods.(done by plastic welding the cases)
The biggest 'issue' with the water pump is that the bypass pipe comes off at a completely different angle and requires some interesting plumbing.

Obviously it's harder over here because we didn't have the ER27 in our market so it's hard to get parts to try, but if someone had an ER27 next to an EA82 it would be worth trying to fit all the timing gear (cam pulleys, tensioners, idlers, cases, belts) from the ER27 to the EA82 block, I reckon if that were possible the swapping of the oil and water pumps would be almost 'bolt on'

If that does work, someone better save me a full set of ER27 cases and timing gear ;)

#116 nncoolg

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:24 PM

By the way, are you happy with the MLS head gaskets?

#117 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 02:03 AM

Thank you for posting the info you found nncoolg. I need to pickup an er27 pump and tinker with it. It appears to benefit the lower rpms more based on the specs you linked on ausubaru, but diminishing returns as rpms increase? I think it would activate the cam towers sooner too. The cam towers each have spring valve (much lower pressure than pump bypass/relief), but I have no idea at what psi it starts to/fully opens.

 

I can't think of any disadvantages to the extra flow and slightly higher pressures, it's going to puke much of extra oil into the heads via the oil bar not via bypass (good thing?). It could even allow for slightly looser main and rod bearing tolerances or just extra protection when beating on it.

 

As for the water pump, the flow stats you listed intrigue me. It has a smaller impeller and pulley.. you would think it has smaller pulley and larger impeller.

 

Re the MLS gaskets, I don't have anything running yet. As soon as I get the first RX running, I will be reporting back. And if there is a failure I will definitely be making a post with the how/what/why and pictures. I did notice the viton coating is fragile and can be scratched off, but its only an issue for handling before installation and shouldn't effect how they function.
 

 

I still can't decide between 7/16 and 1/2 studs, I think I'm going 1/2"... I'd rather the piece of mind and extra base threads.

 

 

 

Images are from nncoolg. I hope you don't mind me posting these, if you want them removed lmk.

oilpumpspecs.jpg

 

waterpumpspecs.jpg


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 14 June 2014 - 02:05 AM.


#118 nncoolg

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 06:54 AM

Have you tried putting the ER27 'front' on the EA82 block yet?
What I mean by that is the cam wheels, all the idlers and tensioners, crank pulleys, inner and outer cases...
Because if they fit, that would make the oil pump and water pump a 'direct fit'

#119 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 11:40 PM

Have you tried putting the ER27 'front' on the EA82 block yet?
What I mean by that is the cam wheels, all the idlers and tensioners, crank pulleys, inner and outer cases...
Because if they fit, that would make the oil pump and water pump a 'direct fit'

 

I've been collecting parts to give it a try!

Work has been kicking my butt lately tho.. I've been working doubles and on-call. But I'd really like to get the first RX on the road in the next couple months.

 

My 87 GL parts car is going to the scrap soon, I just need to pull the dash and grab the rest of the wiring. So that is one hurdle that will be out of the way soon.



#120 nncoolg

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:06 AM

Any news?

#121 Gloyale

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:06 PM


" I'll probably end up doing timeserts as well. Esp with the 7/16 studs, rethreading over 11mm seems like a bad idea."

 

7/16ths fine (20) is SOOOOOO close to m11x1.25 that you can practically thread a 7/16ths right into the block.....

 

And when I say practically, i mean literally.......it threads right in and over the 1-1/2" depth there is a half thread difference.....which just locks the stud in tight.

 

I repaired a EJ22 with 7/16ths fine thread B7 threaded rod.........basically high grade all-thread.

 

WAAAAY cheaper than head studs.

 

Not the best for every build.....but a good workable, affordable option for the budget builder.



#122 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:17 PM

Well, I was making progress.. Then another honda decided to jack up another one of our cars, it will buff out right? So many spot welds to remove that quarter panel........ I might just look for a g4/g5 mirage coupe and make an evo clone with the 4g69.  :( This is what I get for letting my girlfriend talk me into adding a mitsubishi to he herd.

 

As a 911 procedure I swapped a 120k mile running (original hg's!) ea82t into my 88 RX (RIP 87GL parts car), just to have another driveable car. I refuse to shuttle my better half to work everyday. In my dining room I have 2 ea82t's and an ej255 shortblock just waiting for bearings/gaskets and the time to check clearances/assemble. As soon as the first built ea82t is assembled, I will likely gut the 87 RX and put it in that. It makes more sense now. Sorry i'm so slow, but such is life... I will take pictures and create an actual build journal when it gets down and dirty.

 

 

 

 

IMG_1432.jpg



#123 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:35 PM

" I'll probably end up doing timeserts as well. Esp with the 7/16 studs, rethreading over 11mm seems like a bad idea."

 

7/16ths fine (20) is SOOOOOO close to m11x1.25 that you can practically thread a 7/16ths right into the block.....

 

And when I say practically, i mean literally.......it threads right in and over the 1-1/2" depth there is a half thread difference.....which just locks the stud in tight.

 

I repaired a EJ22 with 7/16ths fine thread B7 threaded rod.........basically high grade all-thread.

 

WAAAAY cheaper than head studs.

 

Not the best for every build.....but a good workable, affordable option for the budget builder.

 

7/16 would work great with bolts/studs/threaded rod, but I'm very cautious to go with the ARP studs I listed before without some type of insert (timesert/full torque).. Just due to the limited 1" thread engagement and requirements for counter boring.

I went with the 1/2" studs, at least for the first ea82t. It will require a very small amount of honing to the bolt holes in the heads themselves.

 

Finally ditched my chinese drill press and picked up a used delta, I was worried about doing the block holes myself... no longer.



#124 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:34 PM

Considering a MLS torture test with a all stock ea82t that has never been apart @120k, while I save money for this/other projects.

 

I have all the parts/consumables for a full reseal. My only concern is being able to reach the appropriate surface roughness for the head/deck. G2G recommends ~20 RA for his MLS gaskets, cometic recommends less than 50 RA (mirror finish) generally. I do have a surface plate, a 18" precision straight edge and feelers, and a ton of silicon carbide wetordry sheets.. The surfaces should both still be relatively flat since the motor has never been apart or overheated.

Any input?


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 23 August 2014 - 02:35 PM.


#125 86BRATMAN

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:18 PM

Just wondering what your end compression ratio is going to be with the ej205 pistons?




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