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Still getting misfires 1 & 3


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34 replies to this topic

#1 1-3-2-4

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:23 PM

Should I replace the coil pack first or the fuel filter? The coil pack as arc damage from awhile back..

 

here's what's been done..

 

OEM subaru wires

New Spark plugs

checked compression and it's 185 psi on both cylinders

 

In the morning I will move the injectors around, but if it's a coil problem would I see the misfires on the same side? I need to get emissions done and for the drive cycle I only had the Catalyst left to pass but that's when the damn CEL came on again.



#2 Fairtax4me

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:39 PM

Coils usually fail front /rear half, not left/ right half.
You sure the cam timing is correct? Did you check it yet?
Did you check compression on 2 & 4? How does it compare?

#3 1-3-2-4

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:46 PM

2 had 170 psi and 4 had 145 psi which I suspect was because all my shims got mixed up two years ago when I did the HG.

 

Just to do that I would need to replace the TB tensioner because the metal with the little hole to hold down the rod just snapped on me one day when I pulled the pin.

 

having said that I don't see how it could effect the other side of the head.

 

I feel like cheating because all they do is a OBD II ready test...



#4 davebugs

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:52 PM

Both cylinders on sam eside is mechanical, like timing belt - not electrical.

 

What year/which style tensioner.  I have used both styles if you wanna take that route.  Old I reuse, new I replace (even though they are expensive).

 

I'd atleast pull TB covers and look at how th etop of the cams line up.



#5 1-3-2-4

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:55 PM

Both cylinders on sam eside is mechanical, like timing belt - not electrical.

 

What year/which style tensioner.  I have used both styles if you wanna take that route.  Old I reuse, new I replace (even though they are expensive).

 

I'd atleast pull TB covers and look at how th etop of the cams line up.

My year is listed, it's the same old style used on the old gens. and if the car thinks it's a misfire then why is the psi so high still?



#6 Fairtax4me

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:27 PM

ECU can only use the crank and drivers side cam (2&4) for spark and fuel timing. If the drivers side cam is off a tooth you may get misfire codes for 1&3 because the spark and fuel timing is going to be out of sync with the valve timing for those cylinders.

If the shims are mismatched lash clearance will be incorrect, but that is easy to check. Excessive lash will cause ticking, too little lash may cause the valves to hang open, which if great enough to affect compression, would quickly result in burned valves. Point is the lash clearance is probably not an issue.

#7 davebugs

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 08:22 AM

My year is listed, it's the same old style used on the old gens. and if the car thinks it's a misfire then why is the psi so high still?

I still don't see the year listed.  But the old brass style is good - the best IMO.

 

Yes a tooth or two off will often show as higher compression on one side.

 

Like I said I think TB is likely off.  Easiest thing is to the pull the "ears" off the timing belt cover on both sides.  Check the cam marks to TB cover to see if they line up properly.

 

I have purchased cars with this exact problem after someone did a timing belt job.  Drivable buy occasional annoying code.

 

Also IMO I'd think the shims would really, really have to be off to cause a misfire.

 

As pointed out already the engine compares 2 sensors.  Crank and one camshaft.  So it isn't actually checking all the pieces in the timing system.  So any coded generated with such limited information can be of little help.  You kinda have to interpret what it's trying to tell you since it can't get all the info to give a better code.



#8 1-3-2-4

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 01:13 PM

I'm not sure how you missed it.. It's in my signature.
 

 

I can pull the belt cover but I don't think I will get to that until tomorrow.. for some reason whenever I want to do work on the car it feels the need to rain the whole damn week.



#9 davebugs

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 03:59 PM

I don't look at sig's.  For instance I own no Subaru's but have likely worked on hundreds.

 

And often folks are working on someone else's car, or a new car not added to their profile yet.

 

Therefore whenever I've asked a question here my habit is to always state year/model/engine, and usually trans.

 

But yea - take IIR I use a 10mm 1/4 deepwell to pull those TB cover "ears".  you may then need to turn the crank bolt too.

 

I'm thinking the odds are very good this will identify your problem, if nothing else it will rule out one of the best guesses.



#10 1-3-2-4

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:16 AM

Well indeed the passenger side seems to be 1-2 teeth off, I wonder why? Belt stretch? tired belt tensioner?

 

My drivers side top part of the belt cover broke.. maytbe 2 years ago the bolt must of came loose off of the tensioner and hit the moving belt :wacko:  and broke the belt cover so I can see the two cams turning.. I was thinking maybe water over time weakens it?

 

The belt covers are not too bad on ebay.

 

The drivers side seems to be fine, I did not take the whole center part off because I need to locate the breaker bar but I got as close to the center with the mark by looking down where the crank sensor goes.. which btw I think I should replace it.. the messy engine top is my PS pump which no longer works so I'm going to find a replacement.

 

IMAG1230-1_zpscca11e3c.jpg

IMAG1231-1_zps812267c4.jpg



#11 davebugs

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:58 AM

Regardless of the cause I'd do a TB and idlers, etc.

 

I do seals, WP, accessory belts, etc too while I'm there.  And check those oil pump philips screws.

 

I get teh kit form theimportexperts and have them add accessory belts, often souce my own Dayco TB local(but you may get a better deal getitn git form them too), WP, seals, etc.

 

On a DOHC with a Dayco belt I can never get the drivers side cam marks to totally lign up - don't know whey - but never hurt anything.



#12 1-3-2-4

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:29 PM

Regardless of the cause I'd do a TB and idlers, etc.

 

I do seals, WP, accessory belts, etc too while I'm there.  And check those oil pump philips screws.

 

I get teh kit form theimportexperts and have them add accessory belts, often souce my own Dayco TB local(but you may get a better deal getitn git form them too), WP, seals, etc.

 

On a DOHC with a Dayco belt I can never get the drivers side cam marks to totally lign up - don't know whey - but never hurt anything.

 


Well I just plan on replacing the belt and the tensioner. I guess you missed my big head gasket thread I well covered all the other parts you covered none of the screws on the back of the oil pump backed off.



#13 davebugs

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:44 PM

Yes I missed that thread\.

 

 

Those tensioners rarely fail.

 

Now - folks do forget to take a screwdriver and push them to the left that what 1/4" before tightening the 2 bolts that hold it to the block.

 

When I would buy one with issues like yours and nothing had failed I'd look to see if that tensioner was over to the right in the slots for those bolts or to the left as they should be.  They were always to the left.  Hard to believe that 1/4" would make such a difference, but there has to be a reason the design has the slots for those bolts rather than being round.



#14 1-3-2-4

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:49 PM

Yes I missed that thread\.

 

 

Those tensioners rarely fail.

 

Now - folks do forget to take a screwdriver and push them to the left that what 1/4" before tightening the 2 bolts that hold it to the block.

 

When I would buy one with issues like yours and nothing had failed I'd look to see if that tensioner was over to the right in the slots for those bolts or to the left as they should be.  They were always to the left.  Hard to believe that 1/4" would make such a difference, but there has to be a reason the design has the slots for those bolts rather than being round.

Don't you mean they were always to the right? Perhaps mine still good but it's pointless as I can't hold the plunger down.. I don't think many understood what broke on it :-/ first time I ever seen one mess the metal up in the way it did.. No big deal since they are easy to find.



#15 davebugs

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:06 PM

Pics?

 

After teh brass style tensioner is in place and before pulling the pin you need to take a screwdriver and stick it in there to the right of the tensioner, slide it all the way to the left - 1/4"? and tighten the 2 bolts.

 

I have a lot of those tensioners used.  I put them on Ebay when I have time.  I probably have 20 left, leakers and others that don't look good I jus tthrow out.  PM me if you wanna go used.



#16 1-3-2-4

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:18 PM

Pics?

 

After teh brass style tensioner is in place and before pulling the pin you need to take a screwdriver and stick it in there to the right of the tensioner, slide it all the way to the left - 1/4"? and tighten the 2 bolts.

 

I have a lot of those tensioners used.  I put them on Ebay when I have time.  I probably have 20 left, leakers and others that don't look good I jus tthrow out.  PM me if you wanna go used.

I would of taken a picture of it but I have to find my breaker bar for now you have to go by this.. look were the pin is the white space is meant to show where the metal broke.

 

85043BA_zpsd40e2ba9.jpg



#17 davebugs

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:33 PM

Wow - never seen that before. 

 

And at one point I literally had like 100 of them here.

 

I have had them bend Kobalt allen wrench (note: Lowes return policy is  ahassle compared to Sears).  And their small allens don't hold up like Sears, Snap-on, or the grenade pin that comes with new tensioners.



#18 Fairtax4me

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 04:03 PM

I've seen one of those broken as well, not sure why.
And yes Allen wrenches probably aren't wrong enough for this. I've used a finish nail before (don't remember the size) and it worked pretty well.

I bought a brand new tensioner from Subaru a while ago and I kept the pin I got with it. I've used it several times and it has never bent.

#19 1-3-2-4

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

Yeah it's crazy



#20 1-3-2-4

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:12 PM

Pics?

 

After teh brass style tensioner is in place and before pulling the pin you need to take a screwdriver and stick it in there to the right of the tensioner, slide it all the way to the left - 1/4"? and tighten the 2 bolts.

 

I have a lot of those tensioners used.  I put them on Ebay when I have time.  I probably have 20 left, leakers and others that don't look good I jus tthrow out.  PM me if you wanna go used.

I can't send you a PM since it says you can't receive any new messages.



#21 1-3-2-4

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:56 AM

How much do you want for the tensioner? If I don't hear back I'm just going to get the one on ebay.



#22 davebugs

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:04 AM

I'll try to PM you.

 

I'm leavingin a few hours fo rthe weekend



#23 1-3-2-4

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

Ok thanks



#24 davebugs

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:11 AM

Mailbox was full.

 

I deleted some.

 

I'll be in and out the next 2 hours.

 

My mail comes 1ish,



#25 ivans imports

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:12 AM

I was changeing shims in a 99 outback yesterday in position is a pain but not imposible took 2 hours to adjust #2#4 ex and intake same deal buddy had mixed up lifters and was ticking and misfire codes on #2#4 so i meshure the clearance do the math and determine the shim to use { have a bin of shims for this] but big diference in how it ran after. I used a small prybar to hold bucket down while i poped shim out and used a magnet to remove it. Making shure the ps in cam arrow was in the right position for addjusting the accoding clys valves






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