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Gauging Interest: Open-Source/-Hardware Engine Management.


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#76 NorthWet

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:20 AM

At the risk of inflaming an issue (not my intent :)) that really comes down to a difference of opinion, a couple comments:

 

Megasquirt, is OK but it is not for everyone, just like a Camaro is OK but it is not for everyone,  How available is it overseas?  If it is available, how much more would it cost, and how long to get replacement parts?  Come to think of it, if someone in the USA was driving through Montana or Wyoming (or anyplace between the 2 coasts) and their MS unit died, what would they do?  Sit down and build a new MS-II or shell out another $500 for a prebuilt model, then sit around waiting for it to arrive?

 

Would a method similar to what I have in mind be better?  Maybe not, but maybe.  The processing unit is a jelly-bean, off-the-shelf item available at Radio Shack, Fry's Electronics (or its non-West-Coast counterparts) and Amazon.com... plus hundreds if not thousands of locations around the world.  Anybody is free to make them, so they are ubiquitous and inexpensive.  They are small enough and cheap enough that you can keep a spare in your glove-box or your shirt pocket.  It should be possible to design a no-frills sensor and actuator board that could provide basic but acceptable driveability and that would cost $20-ish, and that could also be carried in the glove-box or your shirt pocket..

 

It is also, by its nature, extensible.  To whatever anyone wants to try.

 

On a more personal note, nobody, not even my wife, knows what I enjoy and why.  I have already enjoyed this journey more than I could express.

 

Cheers! 



#77 bluto5

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:20 PM

I love to modify and drive my cars and have logged many memorable miles on a megaquirt. 

 

3 personal cars, daily driver and road trippers about 20-30k miles total with a couple of 1500 mile trips and 600 miles a week dd for a couple of months. 280zt, 280zx and my soob , an awesome bunch.

 

ive done about a dozen installs with good results. mostly home built ecus to boot. 

 

I first ran my ea82 (also my 280zt) on a ms1 v2.2 and edis hardware sourced from the jy(i had this on hand at the time from previous installs). As another member has shown(on aem, but same solution) the stock ignition parts can be used with a disc swap.

 

http://www.diyautotu...case-p-128.html $157 and some shipping. maybe pic up a stim board to test your creation for another $45 

 

Im currently using v3.0 builds and recommend them. little more expense but some nice features come along with that. this is running the ej in my rx. 6800 rpm, 17psi tdo4 all day, every day. 1500 mile trip and teh big dd miles in the same configuration

http://www.diyautotu...ase-p-108.html

$207.  There are add ons required but its all there and sorted out. $30 board w/ parts to convert the timing signals. i have a few more drivers in there now too 4 @ $8ea, im making the switch from coilpack to cop. wire in the drivers, adjust the wiring harness as required and its done.

 

I will likely make the jump to ms3, at least on my subaru where i am honing my tuning and building skills. again more expense but more hardware and software for the $$.

 

when i read your posts i think of other knowledgeable persons within the ms community who keep it all turning.  im sure you would be a wonderful asset to the community if you ever came around to the ms side hehe

 

I dont disagree with what your doing, as a fabricator i spend hours building brackets and cans and this and that. its a human drive to remake things as you see fit.

 

i guess i wanted to provide a pro ms point of view and quick mention of capabilities vs price.

 

Sam


Edited by bluto5, 04 July 2013 - 03:29 PM.


#78 NorthWet

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:43 PM

I appreciate you responding to my posts in a positive manner. I also agree that there is nothing wrong with giving a pro-MS view.  Frankly, I think that you may have given more useful information on MS than I have seen previously on this forum.  Kudos.

 

You may not have as yet turned me to "The Dark Side" (do you have cookies???), but you have supplied good info and a link, and I will be looking through it.  Sounds like it is a different "scene" than it was 4 or 5 years ago.  Hmmm..."asset"... hmmmm.... maybe the first syllable of that word fits me better.  I suspect that my view of programming would clash mightily with the establishment's concepts.  Meh...

 

Cheers!



#79 NorthWet

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:14 AM

Hey Sam, I have a suggestion that would be a good thing for me, for other members, and for the MS community.  How about doing a write-up on MS:  What is currently available, community support, some links, some of your experience and thoughts.

 

As I mentioned earlier, there does not seem to be much practical experience or information on MS on this forum, and I think that we could use some.  So, what do you think?

 

I am looking forward to a good read!



#80 bluto5

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:00 AM

I had a little bit of a write up on my install but i think it got lost in some of the forum moves that happened a little while back.  Im pretty far removed from my original setup to be able to write a useful writeup and my current setup is probably far from a typical install. 

 

here is one on an 89 rx from diy http://www.diyautotu...ru_rx_turbo.htm

 

2milehi has an extremely good ej/impreza writeup and information thread on rs25.com. his build involved a ms2 v3.0 inside a stock ecu case using a stock ecu header plug to make for oem fitment.http://www.rs25.com/...k-ecu-case.html

 

One thing i would highly recommend for anyone setting up an ms on an ej..  you have the option to use the phase l cam and crank(6/7) sensor combo or the phase ll 36-2-2 crank only sensor/wheel. it is significantly easier to get the latter up and running.

 

I try to keep my eyes on the forum for anyone looking for ms info but there hasnt been a lot of interest, even when my writeup was up near the top.

 

  I just read of another member here picking up a pnp(plug and play, made with the applicable ecu harness plug. nice feature but more $$ from diy) unit for an ej application. maybe they will share their adventures

 

for anyone spurred on to do some reading, i would suggest the msextra.com forums and manuals. its a community that has branched off of the bowling and grippo main group with its own code and devolpment. most ms users are probably on extra code. 

 

http://jbperf.com/

this is the website of someone who does some independent hardware development in the ms community.  you may find it interesting.

 

Ive listed lots of options and features that add a few $$ here and there. it does all add up. but aqain, if someone wants to run an ea or ej it can still be done on that ms1 v2.2.

(note: ej would need a different crank position sensor fitted but its doable. i ran a custom sensor and trigger wheel on my ea.)

 

good luck with whatever you decide.

 

im sure it will work out. and as you alluded to, the joy is in the journey and the doing of whatever.

 

Sam



#81 NorthWet

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 03:03 PM

Thanks for the info.  Hopefully, many will find it useful.

 

Regarding lack of interest, sociologists (and the PR folks that misuse the data) would probably tell you that "interest breeds interest", or, the more something is talked about the more people will talk about it.  Humans are pack animals, more like sheep than wolves, and will follow most anything they hear about.  "Social networking", "the buzz" and "currently trending" owe their popularity to us being sheep.  (sorry for the lecturey/preachey tone.)

 

Get some interest going, bang a drum, talk about it, promote the idea.  Post new developments, cool stuff.  It would be great to get a dialogue going.  If the "NEW WAY TO BURN WATER!!!" crowd can regularly get lively discussions going, something that actually works and makes life more interesting shouldn't be too tough.  I'd be willing to help get the buzz going in most any roll you would like:  Devil's Advocate, Straight Man, Audience Shill.  It might be fun and informative.

 

Anything is better than "Burn water in your car" threads.

 

Cheers!



#82 bluto5

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:06 PM

haha i feel like im  proselytizing now. this convo has been a good "what do you believe in and whats really important" talk hehe. 

 

its a small percentage who want or need to modify their car in this way. For me it was a fascination with turbocharging that got me on this path. stanalone really shines when you are changing lots of the hard parts away from oem design.

 

There are other ways to manage a factory turbo car boost up or na-t conversion but ms made a lot more sense than piggy back computers that were available to me circa 2004(80s-90s japanese built units/technology). this has been eclipsed to a degree now with the quality and reprogrmmability of oem ecus. if your in a wrx or evo or whatever i wouldn't be recommending ms (or other stand alone) unless your really going off on your own path.

 

I will be doing the cop ecu mods and swap in the near future.  I have a new engine harness mostly built and parts on hand for the ecu. if i can ill snap some pics along the way and make a cop swap write up and ms q&a(if any pop up). 

 

Sam


Edited by bluto5, 06 July 2013 - 01:31 PM.


#83 NorthWet

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:16 PM

Preaching only works on the converted... otherwise, it is information that is either interesting or not.  There are many that will find your information and experiences interesting, as (I hope) some will find mine. Sharing of information is the only way that progress is made.  Witness on!

 

I am also looking into a COP conversion on my EA82s, as the distributor-style HT on the EA82Ts have given me much grief over the years:  Driveability issues, such as big dips in power at different parts of the RPM range, or HT collapse following the use of injector cleaner that seemed to be caused by expecting too much from aging HT leads.  I do need to remember the issue that was over-looked by a person that converted his EA82T to MS w/EDIS:  Oil-pump-side T-belt broke... 

 

Please continue to share. 



#84 Steve W.

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:39 AM

Just so you know, I'm following this thread with much interest. I've always wanted to try an MS, but lacked the time and funding. Not that I really need to step up to the next level, but I find all this info. fascinating.  Keep goin', thanks.  Steve.



#85 NorthWet

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:10 PM

Thanks, Steve.

 

While tracking down some information for another thread, I ran across an SVX site that has what should be some interesting/useful information on the EG/EJ ECUs and TCUs, along with resources (cables, software, how-tos) to make information-gathering more practical.

 

In case anyone is interested:

http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/



#86 bluto5

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:00 PM

To continue the ms talk..

http://www.ultimates...ck-to-cop-swap/

 

lots of info on the alcyone site. i have always been sort of fascinated(from a distance) by ecu decoding and reprogramming. its so foreign to me that it has never seemed like much of a  personal diy possibility.

 

sam


Edited by bluto5, 09 July 2013 - 07:01 PM.


#87 NorthWet

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:29 PM

Nothing is magical about programming for process control... pretty straightforward stuff.  It is harder to disassemble/reverse-engineer code.  Disassembly tends to be an iterative process, trying to find the figurative beginning of a thread to grab on to so as to unravel the rest, reaching the end of that unravel, and searching for a new thread end to tug.






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