Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Super Weird 1990 Subaru Legacy Fuel Issue

Legacy Fuel Super weird Fuel injector Fuel pressure regulator Siezed 1990

  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 ThatSubaruKid

ThatSubaruKid

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • Vancouver, WA

Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:26 AM

So my wagon is having issues.
Saturday: Ran fine, took out injectors to see if the were the cause of my terrible idle, all seemed well so they went back on. Tried to start it, nothing. A few tries latter the engine seized. I pulled the plugs, unclipped the coil pack, and turned it over. Gas came shooting out like a fountain out of my engine. Put it all back together. Car then turned over but wouldnt start. Realized I forgot an O-Ring for one of my injectors. Replaced it. Still nothing.

Sunday: Let it sit overnight. Tried to start it, nothing. Siezed again, cleared it out and replaced plugs. Nothing.

Monday: Checked EVERYTHING. Siezed again and again. Then randomly ran for 20 minutes shooting gas out of the tail pipe, turned it off and tried again. Nothing.

Tuesday: Replaced ALL O-Rings tried to start, siezed, tried to start again, ran for 5 minutes, but then I hit the gas a little and it died. I noticed that if I press on the pedal and prime it while I try and start it, it starts, but then dies or will run but dies when I press on the pedal.

My neighbor (owns a BADASS Forrester) thinks its a fuel pressure regulator. Could anyone give me some of their opinions?

#2 chaz345

chaz345

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 94 posts
  • Portland, OR

Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:52 AM

My guess would be that you damaged the injectors in some way when you pulled them out of the fuel rail. They are darn near impossible to get out without breaking them.

 

Pressing on the pedal to "prime" it is actually something from the days of automatic chokes on carburated engines and on this era of Subie it actually turns off the injectors for a short time and is used to clear a flooded condition.

 

The fact that is siezes when trying to start  and when it runs it's obivously VERY rich says to me that so much fuel is getting dumped in there that its wasking the oil off the cylindr walls.

 

I don't know how much a fuel pressure regulator costs, or how much of a pain in the butt it is to replace, but unless it's very cheap and easy, I'd go pull some injectors(just take the whole rail assembly) from the junkyard and try that. 

EDITED to remove incorrect information. I wrongly assumed that the 90 used the same injectors that my 91 did.


Edited by chaz345, 05 June 2013 - 12:48 PM.


#3 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,462 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:01 PM

Did you replace the flat viton ring at the bottom of the injector seat?  As well as the Oring that seals the upper lip?

 

Pretty clear you've got fuel draining out of the rail, around the injector and into the cylinder(s)



#4 ThatSubaruKid

ThatSubaruKid

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • Vancouver, WA

Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:07 PM

Yes.

#5 ThatSubaruKid

ThatSubaruKid

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • Vancouver, WA

Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:08 PM

I got old/new injectors and they had everything on them.

#6 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,462 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:42 PM

I got old/new injectors and they had everything on them.

 

Wait?  Old or New?  Mix match?  New seals or reusing?

 

Are you sure you got correct ones?  90 intakes use an oddball black injector with a smaller nozzle.

 

Whatever you did, the injectors are not seated in the rail propely, and youve got raw fuel draining past the injector into the engine.



#7 ThatSubaruKid

ThatSubaruKid

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • Vancouver, WA

Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

I took the injectors off a car identical to mine with the exception of color. I just found this online...all of these are my symptoms except #3


A fuel pressure regulator that is going bad has several symptoms that will let you know when it is going out. In this article we are going to tell you a few of them ,

1. Spark Plugs Blackened

Remove one of your spark plugs and check out the end of the plug. If it is sooty then it is probably your fuel pressure regulator. Check all plugs if one is sooty. Only one being that way could just mean that the engine is burning oil at that head. When you replace the fuel pressure regulator you may want to replace your plugs because they may have become fouled out. You can clean them and replace them but it it continues to run rough, replace your plugs

2. Engine Doesn't Run Smooth

When you are idling the engine it is not running smoothly and it is sputtering and spitting like it is going to die, you need to check out you fuel pressure regulator. If you haven't changed your fuel filter in a while, you should do that first and see if helps. If not, then check the fuel pressure regulator. You will also have trouble starting the car. It will try to turn over but not quite for a few tries before it actually starts.

3. Your Tail Pipe Has Black Smoke

You tail pipe having black smoke coming out of it is a sure sign that there is something wrong with your fuel pressure regulator. Have it replaced. The normal color of any smoke coming out of the exhaust should be white or gray, not black. That is a sign that something is definitely wrong.

4. Check Your Oil Dipstick

Check the oil dipstick and see if you smell fuel on it. If you do, it could be a symptom of a bad fuel regulator. The regulator has allowed gasoline to leak into the oil system.

5.  Gasoline Dripping Out of the Tailpipe

If you have a drip of gasoline out of the tailpipe. Other than if you overfill your tank, it most likely is the fuel pressure regulator. The gas is leaking into the exhaust system because the fuel pressure regulator is allowing it to pass into the lines.

6. Stopping Running

If the engine stalls when you press down on the gas pedal, you need to check out the fuel pressure regulator. Normally there is no hesitation when you press on the gas to go. If you start to go and it hesitates before it goes, you also need to get it checked out, because it may just be starting to go out.

7. Confirmation

If you want to confirm that it is really your fuel pressure regulator that is gone here is how to check it. Remove the vacuum hose that attaches to the fuel pressure regulator, making sure that the engine is turned off. If gas is in the line, it is bad. If there is none in the line, but when you turn the switch to on, fuel drips out of the hose than it is bad.

 



Read more: http://www.doityours...r#ixzz2VMleF1mY

#8 ThatSubaruKid

ThatSubaruKid

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • Vancouver, WA

Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:02 PM

Update* Checked for Fuel again, not getting fuel when I turn the key. Checked before the filter, still nothing. So I now know its not a clogged filter. When I turn the key, I hear te pump make a whining sound. It's very faint. Could my pump be going out?

#9 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 9,036 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:40 PM

The engine is not seizing, it is hydro locking because the cylinders are full of fuel.
The injectors are either not seated properly or the o rings are not sealing the lower section of the injectors.
You need to remove the injectors, pull the spark plugs out and crank the engine to get some of the fuel out of the cylinders, figure out why the injectors are not sealing and correct it.

When you put the injectors back in you need to turn the key to ON for a few seconds to allow the rails to prime. Turn the key off, put the gas pedal on the floor and hold it, then turn the key to start.
With the pedal on the floor the injectors are disabled, so the engine will not flood again. After a few seconds the fuel that's already in the cylinders will clear and the engine will fire. Once it is running take your foot off the pedal and it should stay running on its own.

#10 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,978 posts
  • Texas

Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:18 PM

do an oil change after you get this fixed. oil is probably loaded with gas.



#11 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,462 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:28 AM

I took the injectors off a car identical to mine with the exception of color.

 

That's your problem.  Grey and black injectors are not interchangable.



#12 heartless

heartless

    Do YOU Subaru?

  • Members
  • 2,853 posts
  • North Central Wisconsin

Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:52 AM

  They are darn near impossible to get out without breaking them.

 

That is nonsense - granted, they are not "easy" to get out, but it is possible to get them out without breaking anything. Have done it several times and never broke a single one.

 

 

All 4 injectors "should" be the same in color/style, and should be the appropriate color/style for your specific car - too big a nozzle, or too small a nozzle WILL cause issues. Do not mix colors/styles. as an example - my 1990 Legacy w/4eat has grey top injectors installed - all 4 the same.

 

When installing, give the O-rings a light coating of engine oil to help them slide in and seat properly. trying to put them in dry will almost certainly cause problems with them not seating correctly.

 

Make sure the plugs for each injector are fully & completely connected.

 

And most definitely check your oil level - my bet is that it is extremely diluted with gas at this point and reading really high - should be changed ASAP - and once you get it running properly again, change it again to make sure all the gas is removed from the crankcase.



#13 ivans imports

ivans imports

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 2,950 posts
  • lumby bc canada

Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:53 AM

Siezed if you put the starter to it bent rods the 2.2 injectors ar a b--h to get in right i would get a set compleate in rails and change out rails before you realy damage the engine. Or get injector seal kit from subaru to make shure they seal right



#14 Wayback

Wayback

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Bothell, WA

Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:27 PM

Gas came shooting out like a fountain out of my engine.

 
I once forgot to release the fuel pressure before pulling an injector, and didn't notice fuel was running down the hole until the area below filled up and fuel started spilling out of the hole. I think I got lucky and the intake valves were closed, so I was able to stick a tube down there and suck out most of the gas. Sounds like this might be what happened to you, except the intake valves were open and the gas ran down into the cylinder.



#15 Rooster2

Rooster2

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 3,745 posts
  • Indianapolis

Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:43 PM

do an oil change after you get this fixed. oil is probably loaded with gas.

Same thought as I read thru all the post replies. You don't want to drive with oil diluted with raw gasoline. Best to change the oil before trying to start the motor again.



#16 wasabiboi

wasabiboi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts
  • United States

Posted 04 May 2014 - 05:49 PM

Sorry for reviving this this thread. 

 

I ran into the same exact issue as ThatSubaruKid

 

I had an issue with misfire and wanted to switch around the injectors to see if it would change the misfiring cylinders, guess I didn't clear the fuel well enough and fuel got into the motor. Motor just clunked and I googled around and found this thread. edit: I also forgot to disconnect the battery when pulling the injectors, would that have caused anything?  

 

Followed FairTax4me's advice

 

I pulled the fuel rail/injectors and plugs which were soaked in fuel and cranked the motor which then was not seized and fuel shot out of the motor. 

 

I put everything back and tried cranking the motor. It turns over but doesn't fire up. 

 

I didn't replace the soaked plugs because I just had them installed less than 200 miles ago and they looked clean when I pulled them. Could the fuel ruined the plugs? Could my injectors be damaged? 

 

HELP!~


Edited by wasabiboi, 04 May 2014 - 06:12 PM.


#17 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 9,036 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:18 PM

Did you dry the plugs before putting them back?
Did you allow the cylinders to air dry for a little while after cranking it over?
Did you turn the key on and off several times to prime the fuel rails?
Did you try cranking the engine with the throttle wide open? When the cylinders are floods the mixture is too rich and requires more air in order to burn. Cranking with the throttle wide open cuts the injectors to help clear fuel from the cylinders.

#18 wasabiboi

wasabiboi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts
  • United States

Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:20 PM

Did you dry the plugs before putting them back?
Did you allow the cylinders to air dry for a little while after cranking it over?
Did you turn the key on and off several times to prime the fuel rails?
Did you try cranking the engine with the throttle wide open? When the cylinders are floods the mixture is too rich and requires more air in order to burn. Cranking with the throttle wide open cuts the injectors to help clear fuel from the cylinders.

 

I let the plugs sit for about 30-45 minutes. (Now guessing that that wasn't enough.) 

 

I tried at night when I put everything back together, no go. I tried again today at noon. Same thing, turns over, no start. 

 

Yes, I primed the fuel rail many times. 

 

As in holding down the gas pedal? Yes I tried that. How long should I be holding the key on crank for? I'm afraid I might damage something. 

 

Fuel pump is working, I pulled a line from the fuel filter to confirm that fuel was flowing when I set the key to on. 


Edited by wasabiboi, 04 May 2014 - 09:22 PM.


#19 wasabiboi

wasabiboi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts
  • United States

Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:34 PM

Update: Just tried again, held down the throttle and it fired right up! 

 

Going to test drive on the freeway, wish me luck! Extremely excited right now. 

 

Thanks FairTax!  :lol:







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Legacy, Fuel, Super weird, Fuel injector, Fuel pressure regulator, Siezed, 1990

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users