No power on pass side cyls? HELP!

[CarpeNoctem]

It's coming off the forward most valve of cyl 3. is this intake or exhaust?

 

 

Also what is the proper name of the "oil relief valve"? I'm guessing this is the spring loaded valve that is behind that tube that is there to drip oil onto the cam right?

Edited June 15, 2013 by CarpeNoctem

[Gloyale]

Intake

[CarpeNoctem]

thanks. 

 

Anyone know a vendor for the valves in the cam towers? I'd like to replace them while I'm doing the rest.

[Gloyale]

thanks. 

 

Anyone know a vendor for the valves in the cam towers? I'd like to replace them while I'm doing the rest.

You mean the pressure relief?  It's just a plunger and spring....no need to replace just clean and reisntall.  Some people like to stretch the spring to give more pressure.  Not sure if that's good advice.

[CarpeNoctem]

Ah ok. Well ecerything is ordered. All 8 lifters VC gaskets W/grommets & the cam and crank seals (if it's coming off a second time i may aswell). Waterpump is being done as well.

After i finally have this motor right it'll be on to A/C R134a retrofit with new compressor (134 is harder on compressors and I want it right first time)

then audio (dead deck)

Then tint (vegas heat is killer)

Then suspension

I'm also working on steel wheel manufacturer to make some in our pattern. If it becomes a group buy situation i'll post it. Hoping for some D-window beadlocks in 15"

Edited June 17, 2013 by CarpeNoctem

[86 Wonder Wedge]

Honestly, I'd skip the R134A conversion as these systems are very robust and wouldn't tamper with it.

 

Convert the ports to 134 heads and use an R12 replacement  (Like EnviroSafe's ES12). Have successfully used it in 2 other R12 Subaru systems and an old A6 general motors setup. The ES12 will mix and the ester oil will help the compressor. At ~$30 for 4 12oz cans, HELLVA lot cheaper than a new/reman compressor and the R12 (ES12) is a vastly superior refrigerant to 134a

 

Just food for thought...

Edited June 18, 2013 by 86 Wonder Wedge

[CarpeNoctem]

ok so I finally got time to install the new lifters/HLAs and on start up the follower on the same valve (intake #3 cyl) comes loose again it's the same every time. I'm starting to guess I have a blocked oil passage in there. there is no visible damage to follower/s I swapped it out this time to see if things changed. So either I have a valve spring that is bouncing like crazy (no visible damage) or the lifter isn't getting oil and is being allowed to collapse far enough to allow the lifter cup to come loose.

 

 

Any thoughts before I pull the head?

Edited June 25, 2013 by CarpeNoctem

[CarpeNoctem]

Bump any other possibilities? going to pull it and take it to be hot tanked and etc otherwise.  But i'd rather do things myself if its something I can do here

[Gloyale]

have you checked the Camshaft journals?  If the One that is fed oil from the head is hogged out and too large a clearance, then oil will not flow through it into the other halve of the head that feed the HLA holder.

[MilesFox]

Does the valve appear to be closed all the way? Maybe the valve seat is dropping yout, and although the valve may be sealing against it, it is not coming back up to meet the face of the follower, thus leaving a gap allowing it to fall out.

 

By this point you may want to consider removing the head for inspection.

[Mark Humble]

Miles,

You may have hit the nail on the head. I have been following this post and trying to think of what might cause the cam follower to come out. The valve seat may have come loose and is dancing around. I have seen this happen before, but a long time ago, so I didn't even think of it. That could hold the valve open as much as a quater inch or so, more than enough to allow the follower to drop out.

 

Mark

[CarpeNoctem]

Now that makes sense with what's happening!

 

Is it repairable (by a machine shop of course)?  I'll pull it. but if it's typically non repairable I'd rather spend the cash on another head that for their inspection fee. Money is really tight until I get this car on the road and sell the cadillac ( which is the reason I bought the subie). 

Edited July 1, 2013 by CarpeNoctem

[Mark Humble]

First inspect the cam box for any problems like worn bearing bore, worn can lobe, worn cam follower just to make sure there isn't a problem in any of those componets that could cause the follower to drop out. If no problems can be found, then pull the head. If the seat has come out, it might be repairable, but given the fact these head tend to develop bridge cracks (cracks between the seats) it may not be repairable. Some machine shops might say yes and others no. For my money, I would replace the head with a used, serviceable head. If your pulling parts from a junk yard car, then why not take everything from the block deck up if it doesn't cost too much.

 

Mark

[MilesFox]

You may be able to re-stake the valve seats. If there is a crack between the vlve seats, those can be peened closed. Having the crack is normal, but wide enough to catch a finger nail on could allow for the valve seat to drop out.

 

99% another head will have the cracks between the valves. Even with another head, maybe it's a good idea to peen down the crack and stake in the valve seats, if you are having it go to a machinist anyway.

 

May as well pull both heads and heave them done, valve grind and all.

[CarpeNoctem]

good to know. it'll come off tonight. I'll take pics and add them in case others have this issue later.

[Mark Humble]

http://<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mHNG3-kNXmc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Well, this is my first attempt at posting a video, if it doesn't work maybe someone can fix it.

 

Mark

[Mark Humble]

 

Maybe this.

[Mark Humble]

Something else that came to mind, since you will have to remove the intake manifold to remove the head, check for any foreign objects in the intake port, like a screw or something that is holding the valve open. Other things that might hold the valve open might be, sticky valve guide, or weak or broken valve spring. You might even be able to see if the valve seat has come loose.

 

Mark

[CarpeNoctem]

thats exactly whats happening. I think I read about something with the pcv coming apart and the valve innards falling in before quite possible. and it's within a second of startup so I bet its a seat or something inside.

 

has to come apart either way. if something has gotten in there I have to inspect that valve for damage.if it has any near it'll become a hot spot and cause it to burn the valve. one way or another I expect I'll be rebuilding this head.

[CarpeNoctem]

ok not much to see. Nothing in there to remove except goop behind the valve that would make molasses look thin. it was puddled at the bottom so I'm guessing fuel varnish and oil from pcv system. I don't see any sign of the valve seat moving or anything loose in the intake passage. all I can think at this point is

 

• a bent valve
• the valve is sticking in it's guide due to buildup
• oil passage blocked off
• aliens

[CarpeNoctem]

update from a few minutes ago. that gum is built up in both intake tracks. I took the valves out and both exhaust removed easily #1intake took a tap to get started and pulled out the back. #3 intake had to be driven in until it the tip entered the guide after that i had to twist it to get it to pull free. Hot tank, valve grind, new guides, and stem seals should do the trick for that part.

 

But!!!! I do have cracks between both sets of valves. read the service bulletin. no worries there I guess. 

Edited July 2, 2013 by CarpeNoctem

[NorthWet]

I am hoping that "hot tank" is your generic term for thorough cleaning, and not what is actually going to happen to it.  Traditional hot tanking is ruinous to aluminum parts.

[naru]

The valve is sticking in it's guide due to buildup.

[CarpeNoctem]

I am hoping that "hot tank" is your generic term for thorough cleaning, and not what is actually going to happen to it.  Traditional hot tanking is ruinous to aluminum parts.

 

sorry it was late and I wasn't thinking.  yea I got that stuck in my head and would have got laughed at when i got to the machine shop, so thanks for the konk on the head to jog my brain. 

[WoodsWagon]

How long had the car been sitting and how stinky was the gas in the tank?

 

I have had bad gas do this to multiple engines of varying valvetrain designs. The varnish in the old, dead, gas builds up on the valve stems and glues them into the guides. Some of them bent pushrods, others dropped pushrods, and the ea82t dropped it's cam followers just like yours except I lost 3 at once.

 

It seems to happen most often after you get it running on the sour gas. While it's running it seems to be fine, but after you shut it down and let it cool overnight the valves seize in the guides and all hell breaks loose when you try starting it again.

 

If you still have the residue of the bad gas in the tank you will keep having problems no matter how many times you fix the engine. Sometimes replacing the tank is the only option if you can't find someone to clean it or can't get it clean yourself with fresh gas and sloshing it around and scrubbing until it comes out clean. I have chucked a handful of nuts (the metal kind) in and sloshed a tank around until they broke up all the gick. Just make sure you get the same number of nuts back out that you put in.

 

My solution to getting old cars home is a boat tank. I don't bother with pouring gas in the main tank until I drain it, drop it, and clean it now. With a 6 gal boat tank and an electric fuel pump I can be guaranteed that the engine will run the whole way home on fresh gas and not get damaged. It's kind of sketchy driving with a tank in the passenger compartment but I'm sick of fixing stuck valves.