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Lets Talk Engine Scenarios


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8 replies to this topic

#1 Mugs

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:59 PM

Ok, so I will be getting a suby here in the near future (bout time..been w/o for a year.) I am hoping to find one in need of repair. 

 

I have decided on a 1997-2001 IMP OTB Wagon. Would prefer auto but don't care as long as it has A/C and Cruise. I will be using it as a DD and commuting back and forth from Seattle to Spokane on a regular basis. In conjunction with using it for my outdoor hobbies, of backpacking, snowboarding, and kayaking. 

 

So I am playing around with the different engine mods and plan on giving it a "new" suspension. I am looking for what you all think would be the best situation for my style of driving conditions. Please don't base your input on what would be cool, but what you know would be a good combination and works well. MPG VS HP or a decent combo of both. YES I have all the different platforms already, to build any one of these given scenarios. So its just a matter of assembly. 

 

So here is the platform:

 

97-2001 IMP OTB Sport wagon

Forester struts

OTB lift blocks (factory) 

Forester 15in rims (or OTB) 

195/75/15 (or slightly larger what ever will fit the best) 

 

UEL headers for what ever configuration and cat back exhaust (may run a different cat as well) 

 

Different Engine scenarios. 

 

Stock EJ22 (just drive it)

 

EJ22 with delta torque cams (a little more pep)

 

SOHC EJ25 Stock (do a transplant on it) 

SOHC EJ25 w/ delta torque cams

 

EJ25/22 Frankein Motor 

EJ25/22 Franken Motor w/ delta torque cams

 

So let the ideas come forth. Thank you all for your input. 


Edited by Mugs, 19 June 2013 - 12:15 AM.


#2 Fairtax4me

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:44 PM

Well, from reading threads here the Frankenmotor with cams is out unless you take it somewhere to get it tuned.
If fuel mileage is a concern the 2.2 with delta cams wins. More than enough power to pull itself around with no trouble. Über reliable and you can run regular gas no trouble.

The phase 2 2.5 would not work in a 97. If you were using a 99 I think it would swap no problem but there are differences in the idle control and other electronics between 97 and 2000. No real easy way to make it work.
You could use the block, but the intake would need to stay with the car, which means the heads have to stay as well (since the intake manifold matches the heads).
Frankenmotor really just doesn't work if you care about fuel economy and you'd have to run premium fuel because of the compression. But if you need moaaar powaahhhh!!! go for it.

#3 Crazyeights

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:29 PM

What about the EZ30?



#4 Mugs

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:12 AM

Well, from reading threads here the Frankenmotor with cams is out unless you take it somewhere to get it tuned.
If fuel mileage is a concern the 2.2 with delta cams wins. More than enough power to pull itself around with no trouble. Über reliable and you can run regular gas no trouble.

The phase 2 2.5 would not work in a 97. If you were using a 99 I think it would swap no problem but there are differences in the idle control and other electronics between 97 and 2000. No real easy way to make it work.
You could use the block, but the intake would need to stay with the car, which means the heads have to stay as well (since the intake manifold matches the heads).
Frankenmotor really just doesn't work if you care about fuel economy and you'd have to run premium fuel because of the compression. But if you need moaaar powaahhhh!!! go for it.

 

I hear what your saying. From the experience I have had with Frankein motors thus far, a tune was not nesc. True it may have provided a bit more oomph but the thing rocked from the start. It was a 2003 2.5 block and 97 2.2 roller heads, with delta 1100 cams. Ran off of regular 87 octane gas and went like a bat out of hell, on a super lifted 97 Imp wgn owned by a member here.  Who knows what the MPG was...he could never stay out of the throttle, I can't either. But on a road trip it is easier to be nice. 

 

I intend on using the intake it comes with, in order to keep the wiring the same. I will more then likely polish the head, and intake before assembly as well. 

 

I have read/heard that a EJ25 with just the cams and then tuned makes a great runner w/o all the hassle of some of the bigger builds...something to think about there as well. Plus I think the intake are the same for the 22/25 up till 2000 just the wiring is different...I could be wrong though.

What about the EZ30?

Too much work..don't want to mess with all that wiring upgrade and what not. Just looking for a simple plug and play type rig...It would be fun though. 



#5 grossgary

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:44 AM

i'd just drive it, EJ22's are such great motors and non-turbo performance upgrades so miniscule, they're hardly worth messing with.  i don't care about 20 hp....if i'm thinking power, i want a car that's actually fast and it's going to be forced induction, but you sound more interested in a few more horsepower.....

 

To clarify your comments about EJ22/EJ25 Phase II intake manifolds:

Phase II EJ22's are interchangeable with SOHC EJ25's by simply swapping the intake manifold. More specifically:

1999-2001 EJ22 intake manifolds will bolt up to:
1999 Forester & Impreza EJ25's

All 2000+ EJ25's

 

If you want an EJ25 that's simple to swap, the easiest way is to get a 1999 or later OBS (Outback Sport) so you can use the better EJ25 with lesser headgasket issues and avoid the prior overheat conundrum and rod bearing eating EJ25D.



#6 WoodsWagon

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:03 AM

The Impreza Outback Sport is the same ride height as a normal impreza, so it doesn't have factory lift blocks. You will need the blocks and steering coupler from a Legacy Outback or a Forester if you intend on lifting it high. If you just run Legacy Outback struts, there is enough give in the suspension to take the lift. If you plan on running lift springs or strut spacer blocks above the Legacy Outback struts, you will need the subframe blocks.

 

With Legacy Outback struts and the trailing arm mounts you can run 205/75r15's with light rubbing at full lock turns on bumps.

 

99+ you can swap a SOHC 2.5l in but you need the computer too because they are speed density and the fueling charts are stored in the ECU. 97 and 98 you can put in a DOHC 2.5l. Intakes are different between  the DOHC and the phase 1 2.2l, but the bellhousing harness plugs are a match so it's plug and play, just leave the intakes on the engine.

 

If you want power and snappy acceleration with big tires, find an auto with 4.44 final drive and matching rear diff. The OBS may already come with that, but I'm not sure. Legacy Outbacks all did.



#7 ivans imports

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:50 AM

Stock motor stock platform I bett whould work the best Modifying anything after 2000 is a pain the 2.51 whould probly make the most power and match the car well i did have cams made for the 2.51 they work very well colt cams did them for me



#8 Gloyale

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:58 AM

Well, from reading threads here the Frankenmotor with cams is out unless you take it somewhere to get it tuned.
If fuel mileage is a concern the 2.2 with delta cams wins. More than enough power to pull itself around with no trouble. Über reliable and you can run regular gas no trouble.

The phase 2 2.5 would not work in a 97. If you were using a 99 I think it would swap no problem but there are differences in the idle control and other electronics between 97 and 2000. No real easy way to make it work.
You could use the block, but the intake would need to stay with the car, which means the heads have to stay as well (since the intake manifold matches the heads).
Frankenmotor really just doesn't work if you care about fuel economy and you'd have to run premium fuel because of the compression. But if you need moaaar powaahhhh!!! go for it.


Sohc 2.5 can be used. Plug the iac, and spend 30 secs w/foot on throttle on cold mornings.

I put a 2006 2.5 with 2003 cams and towers in a 90 legacy running off the 90 2.2 ECU. Other than no iac it worked great

#9 grossgary

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:39 PM

T

99+ you can swap a SOHC 2.5l in but you need the computer too because they are speed density and the fueling charts are stored in the ECU..

there is no need to swap the ECU.  you only need the EJ25 exhaust manifold and flexplate to do the swap.

 

there are cases where the timing marks differ - there are two styles but one is very rare, so most are all the same.  it only happens around 99 - 01 model years...or so i've seen.  if they're different, differing number of triggers, you simply swap the crank sprocket and drivers side cam sprocket from the original engine onto the new engine.  that being said - it makes sense and may be the case that swapping the ECU is also a work around for that same issue - but it's not anything to do with speed density related and in general if yo'ure swapping a motor you always have what you need for the swap so swapping the ECu isn't the typical solution.

 

 

TIf you want power and snappy acceleration with big tires, find an auto with 4.44 final drive and matching rear diff. The OBS may already come with that, but I'm not sure. Legacy Outbacks all did.

 

OBS has 4.11.  The only impreza non-turbo auto that got a 4.44 was the RS.






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