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What are my options?


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16 replies to this topic

#1 kmccullah

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:57 PM

Hi folks. New guy here. I hope I've got this posted in the right spot. 

 

I've been racing Subaru's for years and have had really good luck with them. My current car is a 1997 Impreza outback with a 2.2 and automatic tranny. Below is a link to a race I did about a month and a half ago.

 

 

 

Racing this past Saturday I had a softball sized rock hit the cam pulley on the passenger side. It broke off the end of the cam. I found the timing pulley and cam stub about 10 feet behind the car.  :(

 

I have no clue what is possible here. The rules are very loosely written for tuff truck racing. I would love to have a few extra ponies. So maybe this is my opportunity to swap in a better engine? Or should I fix my existing 2.2? It's got 263k on the clock btw. I must say though.....the 2.2 is a damn tough engine. I've been punishing them for years. Normally I would just go find a new-to-me Subaru on craigslist and start over. But I have so much time invested in this Impreza. All the excess sheet metal has been gutted. Plus it has a 6 point cage.

 

So what direction should I go here? The only thing I'm sure of is.....I will always race a Subaru.  :headbang:

 

 

 

 

 



#2 chaz345

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:27 PM

If it's the original engine then being a 97 it's interference and therefore is probably toast.  You can pick up a good used EJ22 for under 500 and can probably install it yourself.    One question, were you running without timing belt covers?  For your use it probably makes sense to have them, it's not like they weigh all that much.



#3 kmccullah

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:42 PM

If it's the original engine then being a 97 it's interference and therefore is probably toast.  You can pick up a good used EJ22 for under 500 and can probably install it yourself.    One question, were you running without timing belt covers?  For your use it probably makes sense to have them, it's not like they weigh all that much.

The timing covers were on it originally. But the first time I had to pull them off, the threaded inserts that are molded in the plastic just spun inside the plastic bosses. I basically had to destroy them to get them off. So no timing covers now. I've actually had to re-time the cams several times and have completely thrown the timing belt off once. So maybe I've been lucky so far. 



#4 WoodsWagon

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:00 PM

Go down to a U-pull it junkyard and grab another head. They're easy to pull off on the phase1 Ej22's, all the headbolts are on the outside so you don't even need to pull the valvecover. Or grab the whole engine, they're cheap and rarely bad.

 

A 2.5l block can have the 2.2l heads bolted to it which makes for more low end grunt. Probably handy for coming out of the corners.

 

Do you have the auto trans locked in 4x4 with a switch or is it still AWD controlled by the computer?



#5 MilesFox

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:16 PM

I would think some sort of skit plate would be better than a full cover. Perhaps some sort of expanded mesh type cover that is see-thru and comes off easily, designed in a way that you do not have to remove the crank pulley to get inside.

 

You can retrofit a factory ea82 skid plate to fit an impreza. You will have to make holes for it to fit on one end, although i cant remember which. i believe it should bolt up the the engine crossmember the same, and then you make holes in the front to fit whre the captive threads are on the impreza's core support.

 

you could try fixing the pulley and installing the belt and maybe you escaped damage. If so, the work was not much to do.

 

As far as timing belt reliability, you couls consider ej22e from 90-96 legacy, or just use the heads from that on a 2.5 bottom end. The ej22e is non interference and the cam pulleys are metal.



#6 chaz345

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:14 AM

The timing covers were on it originally. But the first time I had to pull them off, the threaded inserts that are molded in the plastic just spun inside the plastic bosses. I basically had to destroy them to get them off. So no timing covers now. I've actually had to re-time the cams several times and have completely thrown the timing belt off once. So maybe I've been lucky so far. 

Lucky or it's not the original motor so it's not an interference one. One way to tell, do you have solid or hydraulic valve lifters? If solid then it's an interference motor and you are incredibly lucky. If hydraulic then all you need to do is replace the cam and pully, re-time and you should be on(or off) the road in no time.



#7 ivans imports

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:41 AM

Love it ! fellow subaru racers i love the tough truck events have done a few now is a wild ride how cosistat is it ? If i let off the gas on jumps it nose dives but if i keep my foot in it it jumps level how big of air car your car take ?



#8 kmccullah

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:04 PM

Thanks for all the responses guys. The Subaru brain trust is vast here! B)  

 

It sounds like I need to be looking for a 2.5 and putting 2.2 heads on. So on to my next question.....

I'm green as grass on these Subaru's guys so please bear with me.

Will any 2.5 bolt in place of a 2.2? Will any 2.2 head go on any 2.5 short block? I'm betting not. What do I need to look for here?

 

WoodsWagon- You asked......Do you have the auto trans locked in 4x4 with a switch or is it still AWD controlled by the computer?

I guess I'm running AWD currently. But I would like to know how to electrically lock in 4x4. Is there a external solenoid that I can wire up to a toggle switch? And which end of the car is doing the work if it's not in 4x4?

 

MilesFox-You commented on a skid plate. I made a skid plate out of a 1/4x14x30 piece of plate. But it needs to be wider. Obviously..... a softball sized rock went past it! I like the expanded metal idea also.

 

 



#9 chaz345

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

In terms of 2.2 heads on a 2.5 block, look through the various "frankenmotor" threads here. There's a ton of information. Most any head will physically fit on most any block but because of various variations through the years, some combinations result in an almost unworkably high compression ratio.  In terms of the block fitting in the car/attaching to the tranny, it's pretty much a bolt in operation.


As for the AWD, under normal operation with no slippage the front wheels are doing most of the driving. To lock it into 4WD, which will give you a 50/50 power split, you just need to wire a switch in to interrupt power to the duty C solenoid. Sounds backwards but the way it's built, when the duty c is not energized is when the most torque is sent to the back wheels. Simply wiring in a switch to kill power to the duty C will accomplish what you want but the transmission computer will be upset and flash the AT Temp light on startup. For your use, it should be no big deal though.

 

If you wanted to go all out with the tranny, it's possible to essentially take the transmission computer out of the equation and rig up paddle shifters.



#10 WoodsWagon

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:23 PM

If you find a 96-99 Legacy Outback automatic with blown headgaskets you'd get a great donor car for the impreza. The legacy outbacks have 4.44 final gearing in the trans and rear diff and you could use the 2.5l shorblock with 2.2l SOHC heads from a 90-98 legacy or impreza. Just make sure to run the car, blown headgaskets and all, to listen for any knocking noises. Sometimes people overheat them until they stop running and it does a number on the rod bearings.

 

Use the 2.2l torque converter and flexplate on whatever motor or trans you run. It's a smaller converter than the 2.5l one so it should have a higher stall rpm.



#11 kmccullah

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:38 PM

Thank you guys. I've got a few ideas and I'm pointed in the right direction now. Lots of studying to do also. I'm tempted to play with cams and compression ratios while I'm at it, but I have no clue what kind of aftermarket goodies are available for a Subaru. Been too busy building BB Fords my whole life. Now I've got this whole new world to discover. I will report back when I have it running again. 



#12 chaz345

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:41 AM

Thank you guys. I've got a few ideas and I'm pointed in the right direction now. Lots of studying to do also. I'm tempted to play with cams and compression ratios while I'm at it, but I have no clue what kind of aftermarket goodies are available for a Subaru. Been too busy building BB Fords my whole life. Now I've got this whole new world to discover. I will report back when I have it running again. 

Compression ratio and a little more displacement is basically what you get with a frankenmotor.  In your position that would be the direction I would be looking. While it's not quite as simple as taking any 2.5 lower end and any 2.2 heads and slapping them together, it's not hugely difficult either. There's more than enough info here in the frankenmotor threads to get you going.



#13 Fairtax4me

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:55 PM

Look into a set of Delta reground cams.
Not sure what rpm range you're usually running but racing is usually upper end. Their high end profile might make some good usable power for what you're doing.
Not sure what it will do for off-idle power with the Franken motor though.

If you can run higher octane fuel (91-93) a Frankenmotor would work out great. Find a 99 or newer 2.5 block and put your heads on it.
Actually if the cam itself broke the bearing in the head might be trashed. But 2.2 heads from that era are easy enough to find used and almost never need extensive work.

#14 ivans imports

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:38 AM

on the race buggy i ran a tube strait to the awd no soliniods or valves just strait line preshure was a bitt involved to do but works awsome and still realeases when shut off. I whould recomend a 2.5 1 short block with 92 -96 deul port ej 2.2 heads with 98-99 roller cams and valve trian takes 4 heads to setup but get roller deul port heads. Have biult a cupple now torque monsters



#15 kmccullah

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:28 PM

Thanks for all the info guys. I've found a pair of EJ2.5D motors on craigslist for $400. One is a 1998 DOHC with a blown HG. The other is a 2001 SOHC with a rod knocking. Both have been stripped of all external components. All pulleys brackets and intakes are gone. Will all my 2.2 timing pulleys and brackets work on a 2.5? What do you guys think?



#16 MilesFox

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:09 PM

Whatever you use for heads will determine the timing belt. As long as you are using 2.2 heads, the timing system assumes 2.2 parts. As far as all the pulleys and idlers on the block, those are the same between DOHC and SOHC.



#17 ivans imports

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:37 AM

I have had to modify the timing belt tentioner on some as belt is to tight is easy to do






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