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Fuel pump dead? 1998 LOBW


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10 replies to this topic

#1 kanurys

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:39 PM

First of all, I didn't have my test equipment handy to check electrical stuff. Luckily, I can leave the car parked overnight where it stopped.

 

My girlfriend calls me and says the car won't start. When I get there and try it it barely stumbles and there is no fuel pump whine for priming. No CEL other than from the bad start (misfire 3&4) I grabbed a Napa pump before they closed thinking this is the problem. The engine fires maybe 1 or two times but mostly relies on the starter. I can't hear the pump prime like usual so I checked the connector at the pump and it's plugged in fine. All fuses are in tact.

 

Do you guys think it's the fuel pump? I think it's original with about 140,000 miles on it. I'll check the power in the connector at the pump before installing the new one when I get to the car. Thanks for you thoughts.

 

And yes, there's about 1/4 tank of gas in it. :)



#2 ruparts

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:03 PM

mistake on my part


Edited by ruparts, 27 June 2013 - 07:04 PM.


#3 Fairtax4me

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:35 PM

Check fuses first. I've never been able to hear the pump on mine, so a lack of noise from the pump is no surprise. I'd be more inclined to stick the supply line from the filter in a bottle and see if you get fuel during prime.

No distributor on these so not much to go wrong in that department, although it is possible the timing belt jumped. Which on a 98 OBW would likely mean bent valves, depending on how far it jumped.

#4 johnceggleston

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:06 AM

buy a can of starting fluid and try that before you replace the fuel pum.

if it starts then you have a fuel issue.

if it does not start you probably have no spark.

but i think a fuel issue would cause a misfire on all 4, maybe.

or no pattern at all.

the firing order is 1-3-2-4, so 3&4 are not even next to each other.

 

the igniter can cause a 3-4 misfire.

it feeds the coil in a front (1-2) vs. rear (3-4) manner.

the coil feeds the plugs the same way, but coils don't fail very often.

 

a jumped timing belt is more common but not likely with the 3-4 misfire.

3 - 4 are not on the same head.

 

but try the starting fluid first.


Edited by johnceggleston, 27 June 2013 - 06:06 AM.


#5 kanurys

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:33 AM

Fairtax4me and johnceggleston: Great to hear from you guys. It's been a while. Good suggestions. I can usually hear my pump before the car start for a second or so. All fuses are fine. I'll check the fuel line after the filter and see if there is pressure and flow there. I think the engine is firing a tiny bit off of residual line pressure.

 

ruparts: Thanks for the input, but your advice for another type of vehicle. 

 

Thanks for the discussion, everyone. I'll check the fuel pressure and voltage after work and post back.



#6 kanurys

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:04 PM

I've isolated the problem to the pump. There's no fuel pressure or anything coming out of the hose that goes to the rails and there is power to the pump connector. I have a Bosch (OEM) on order. Thanks for the input, guys.

 

On another note, while I was running for parts my swapped GL died and wouldn't start in a busy intersection. Not a fun day. It was 95°F, too. I let it cool down and grabbed dinner. Then poked at it until it would idle smooth and got it home. The problem with it seems to come and go VERY randomly - for another thread...



#7 Fairtax4me

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:37 PM

No power at the pump, check the relay.

#8 Cougar

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:38 PM

Your attention at noticing the fuel pump wasn't priming is very good. That is a very good clue to this kind of trouble. If you are sure the pump is getting good voltage to it there could be an issue with the return side of the pump if it is controlled by the ECU. I'm not sure how that side of the circuit is setup. I think it ties directly to ground and if so this would mean the pump would have to be at fault if the power to it is okay. You could run power and ground directly to the pump to verify the pump operation.

 

Your other car issue may be due to a plugged fuel filter.



#9 kanurys

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:16 PM

Power and ground to the pump are fine. It's definitely the pump on the '98. I replaced the pump on the swapped '87 and ran an extra ground directly to the battery. Only time will tell with that one but it seems more stable and happy so far.

 

Thanks for the fuel filter idea. I'll think about it, but it pulled strong to 6000+ rpm when it was running properly. I'll keep an eye on that one, though. The filter was replaced when I did the swap a few thousand miles ago, so it should still be good.

 

I'll update tomorrow when I get the 98's pump in.


Edited by kanurys, 28 June 2013 - 11:20 PM.


#10 lmdew

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 03:13 AM

www.brighterideas.com

 

Your meter can lie to you if you do not check the voltage under load.

 

Larry



#11 kanurys

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:08 AM

All is working fine now. I replace the fuel pump, strainer, hose between fuel pump and tank assembly and the nuts on the pump terminals. I had to widen the negative termination on the wire with a step bit by hand. I also had to modify the rubber mount for the pump by trimming down a part that stuck up and cutting some grooves for the alignment fins of the new pump.

 

Parts:

Bosch 69499 from amazon

Imports Direct fuel strainer from oriely

1/4" or 5/16" FI line

5mm nut and lock washer for the negative terminal

4mm nut and lock washer for the positive terminal

 

Reuse the spider clip that holds the strainer onto the pump or get a new one to make it even easier.

 

The way the pump and the strainer connect together is 180° from how the stock ones connect together. All the angles are the same and fitment to the tank is good. The rubber pad needs to be modified with a utility knife to fit tightly to the pump and the terminals on the wires may need to be bent 90° up but it works well and is a pretty solid swap. Thanks for all your advice.


Edited by kanurys, 04 July 2013 - 12:09 AM.





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